Alternatives to Prop Firms?

[total_keops]

Climb the ladder from back office to middle office to front office in a bank with prop desks and then maybe you'll get a shot at it?
If with your degree you manage to get a decet pay at doing something else it is not a bad option to do that and trade on the side. I know this is not what you want to ear but only a selected few make it there. It's like getting into the NBA sort of.

 

[TsTrades]

Maverick74,

I'm not going into my entire resume here. I do have other things in my background that I think can work in my favor, but I want to stay anonymous here. Which I think is perfectly reasonable, as I didn't exactly mean this thread to be a job application! I'm simply asking a question. The financial world is a big and complex one, and I'm just trying to find out what some of my options are. The age thing, by the way, I'll give you. Yes, I regret not getting started with this earlier. But that's one thing I can't control, so I have to work through it. Plus, I'm sorry, but it's not like I'm about to keel over and die here either. I mean, how many people really work for prop firms for decades anyway?

 

[bigpapi]

The only complicated thing here is yourself, you asked for help, people are offering direction and you're acting like a dick, no-one is going to tailor a job for you and roll out a red carpet, so either join a prop, put 25k together and go retail or get lost

 

[TsTrades]

bigpapi,

There's something seriously wrong with you. I don't know what else to say to you. You're a sick guy.

By the way, I was looking around some other threads on this site this evening, and I saw one in which one guy, WinItAll, said the following:

"I'm fully aware that this site has a grand amount of negativity and people trying to disprove others but usually you can get one or two valid responses out of the mass of retardation spewed by traders or want to be traders who have had no success of their own and just try to degrade others."

Suffice to say I now know EXACTLY what he means.

 

[TraderZones]

You seriously need to go back and read this thread again. A few people have been clairvoyantly accurate and you keep glossing over, flashing credentials or getting defensive numerous times.

Gubinec was correct. TraderNik was correct. And so were several others. But this will also probably cause the defenses to go up so...

 

[caementarius]

The paths to "real" prop trading like being a runner, assistant, etc aren't accessible to old farts like us (I'm 33) with graduate degrees. I'm telling you we are in a very similar position so I was working through what you are about a year ago.

I've got an MBA (investment strategy track) from a top university and a background as a programmer/dba type. I've got about a year's worth of living expenses saved up. I've contacted Trillium, First New York, and probably 5 other firms. It's just not happenin' for me yet, bro. Could be bad luck on my part but I think it's just not the applicant profile that makes sense for these places. They either want young blood or PhD quants or folks with a good track record. When I look at it from their perspective, I get that.

I'll keep trying but in the meantime I know that trading all comes down to me. Having an initial failure leads you to believe that people who are successful had some magical training program. No man, that's not it. It's not like you are a genius who just needs the secret sauce served up in a real prop firm to make money. Own your initial failure. Work to win while figuring out how to have failures that won't destroy your finances. This is a painstaking and boring process, so you've got to 'find the joy of practice' with small size.

I read on this site something to the effect that "The first step in self improvement is realizing that you suck." It's so true.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from TsTrades:

Maverick74,

I'm not going into my entire resume here. I do have other things in my background that I think can work in my favor, but I want to stay anonymous here. Which I think is perfectly reasonable, as I didn't exactly mean this thread to be a job application! I'm simply asking a question. The financial world is a big and complex one, and I'm just trying to find out what some of my options are. The age thing, by the way, I'll give you. Yes, I regret not getting started with this earlier. But that's one thing I can't control, so I have to work through it. Plus, I'm sorry, but it's not like I'm about to keel over and die here either. I mean, how many people really work for prop firms for decades anyway?

"anonymous" "perfectly reasonable"
do you have something unique in your background that potential employers/acquaintances could identify you.
why do u care?

give your ego a rest.

 

[TsTrades]

I'm going to ask one more time. For those who cannot get into firms like First NY or Trillium, etc., what are the next best ALTERNATIVES. It's like I keep asking that, and you keep pursuing your own agenda by responding "you'll never get into prop firms like First NY." If anyone wants to respond, I would greatly appreciate it. Any other posts from here on in will be completely ignored.

Thank you.

 

[LeeD]

Quote from caementarius:
The paths to "real" prop trading like being a runner, assistant, etc aren't accessible to old farts like us (I'm 33) with graduate degrees. I'm telling you we are in a very similar position so I was working through what you are about a year ago.

I've got an MBA (investment strategy track) from a top university and a background as a programmer/dba type.

Have you applied to any investment banks or hedge funds? They have a wider spectrum of activities, not just prop trading. Quite a few MBAs graduate in their late 20s / early 30s and in many areas with sales element (stock analyst, broker, actual salesperson) age is an advantge. Once you are in, there may appear many opportunities to move into occupation you ultimately desire.

 

[Rashid_G.]

Quote from TsTrades:

I'm going to ask one more time. For those who cannot get into firms like First NY or Trillium, etc., what are the next best ALTERNATIVES. It's like I keep asking that, and you keep pursuing your own agenda by responding "you'll never get into prop firms like First NY." If anyone wants to respond, I would greatly appreciate it. Any other posts from here on in will be completely ignored.

Thank you.

To crystallize the thread.. There are lost of alternatives in the Finance world you can apply for with your degree that are NOT directly trading related. BUT, if it's trading you want to get into ASAP, THERE ARE NEXT TO NO ALTERNATIVES. Trading is difficult to teach, if at all. Those that you want to teach you trading know learning trading means LOSING money.. therefore they won't take the risk unless you have gone to trading school at your own expense, which is how great traders are made.

It's like asking a Law firm to allow you to be trained in actual cases with next to no experience.

IMHO if you want to stay in trading you either spend years on your own learning OR find a great very successful mentor and absolutely accept all he/she has to say as there isn't much in it for them.