"anyway, traders and econ professors have been debating this for well over a century. "
um, no.
no trader who understands markets "debates" this. it is non-debatable. it is a structure of the market certainty. i am a trader. i am also an investor. that's irrelevant. futures are zero sum. they have to be. it's a structural design aspect.
similarly, stocks are not zero sum. they can't be. it's the design of the market.
"zero sum for which players?"
the fact that you can even ask this question shows you don't understand what zero sum MEANS.
5 people sit down at a poker table with 500 chips each. after 4 hours, one guy walks away with 2500 chips. the other 4 are broke.
that is necessarily true. it's a closed system. for every chip that guy who won got it necessarily meant another trader lost a chip.
a closed system such as that is a zero sum game
futures market is similar in that each additional chip that comes into the game is offset by a short chip
this is NOT true in equities
games/markets are not zero sum for "which players"?
lol, the mere idea shows a complete ignorance of the concept of zero sum
zero sum means that for the aggregate of transactions in the market, the net sum (absent commissions) is ZERO
hence, the name
there is no other possibility in the futures market
that makes it zero sum
the aggregate of transactions in the stock market (absent commissions) are not ZERO
the which players comment is nonsensical
i pull money consistently out of the futures market. that is my job. it is what i do. however, that MARKET is zero sum. saying "it's not zero sum for me" would be nonsensical. because zero sum is a measure of the totality of exchanges within the closet set, not an individuals result within
jeeez
um, no.
no trader who understands markets "debates" this. it is non-debatable. it is a structure of the market certainty. i am a trader. i am also an investor. that's irrelevant. futures are zero sum. they have to be. it's a structural design aspect.
similarly, stocks are not zero sum. they can't be. it's the design of the market.
"zero sum for which players?"
the fact that you can even ask this question shows you don't understand what zero sum MEANS.
5 people sit down at a poker table with 500 chips each. after 4 hours, one guy walks away with 2500 chips. the other 4 are broke.
that is necessarily true. it's a closed system. for every chip that guy who won got it necessarily meant another trader lost a chip.
a closed system such as that is a zero sum game
futures market is similar in that each additional chip that comes into the game is offset by a short chip
this is NOT true in equities
games/markets are not zero sum for "which players"?
lol, the mere idea shows a complete ignorance of the concept of zero sum
zero sum means that for the aggregate of transactions in the market, the net sum (absent commissions) is ZERO
hence, the name
there is no other possibility in the futures market
that makes it zero sum
the aggregate of transactions in the stock market (absent commissions) are not ZERO
the which players comment is nonsensical
i pull money consistently out of the futures market. that is my job. it is what i do. however, that MARKET is zero sum. saying "it's not zero sum for me" would be nonsensical. because zero sum is a measure of the totality of exchanges within the closet set, not an individuals result within
jeeez