zero sum game?????????????

Quote from ElectricSavant:

You do not see all that the market has to give...because its a negative-sum game.

The trends you see are reduced because of this...
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Explain how it can be negative sum?
 
No...read above...you guys do not see the forest for the tree's...why should I waste my time...

I am a trader not a theorist...


Quote from trend_guy:

Explain how it can be negative sum?
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The instance you enter the trade you are upside down. The longer you are in it the more you give away in waste...to where the time verses yield screws you...

A fellow the other day told me, his grandfather portfolio just got back to BE, as he held all through the bubble days up until now...

BE for all this time...sheeesh
 
Quote from ElectricSavant:

No...read above...you guys do not see the forest for the tree's...why should I waste my time...

I am a trader not a theorist...
More...

Your point is valid... this is useless info... the bottomline is can you buy something for a dollar and sell for two. If the answer is yes, you know your stuff and nothing else matters. But the fact remains it is zero sum. If you make money, some either gave you that money or gave up the opportunity to make that money. If you pay a commission, someone else received that commission.
 
Quote from madmunny:

yes for every buyer there is a seller....but that does not mean one has to lose money.....take a stock..any stock....google for instance......its ipo was somewhere around $85...say i buy every share at 85 bucks.....and then sell them all to a different buyer at $200....who then in turns sells them to another buyer at 350......

who has lost money here???...

until a stock becomes worthless from bankrupcy someone has always profited more than the losers have lost.....

so how can this be a zero sum game?
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Alright, perhaps the stock market is not zero-sum because it does not require short sellers. The futures markets obviously are, and that is what people usually are referring to when they say zero sum game. The stock market may be positive sum as long as new funds are coming into the market. The moment funds start leaving the market it becomes negative sum for anyone buying a new position.

Of course, if you count opportunity cost, it is zero sum. (excluding commissions, fees, loss of sleep, ..whatever)
 
You must consider time in your example...this is negative sum...go back to school :) time is your thief...especially overnight!


Quote from trend_guy:

Your point is valid... this is useless info... the bottomline is can you buy something for a dollar and sell for two. If the answer is yes, you know your stuff and nothing else matters. But the fact remains it is zero sum. If you make money, some either gave you that money or gave up the opportunity to make that money. If you pay a commission, someone else received that commission.
More...
 
Quote from ElectricSavant:

The instance you enter the trade you are upside down. The longer you are in it the more you give away in waste...to where the time verses yield screws you...

A fellow the other day told me, his grandfather portfolio just got back to BE, as he held all through the bubble days up until now...

BE for all this time...sheeesh
More...

how so, most of my trades make me 1% plus the minute I enter, where can I get that elsewhere? how am I upside down?
 
They would make you 2% if there was no spread, commission or games! you lose 1% einstein.,..


Quote from trend_guy:

how so, most of my trades make me 1% plus the minute I enter, where can I get that elsewhere? how am I upside down?
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I do not think it is fair to count the bid ask spread. You can sell at the offer and buy at the bid without the market necessarily going through you. i.e. if you sell at the offer, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is now bid at the price you sold it at.
 
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