zero sum game?????????????

[whitster]

cache landing, you are absolutely correct

as i try to explain to the dimwitted...

if the stock market goes down 20% a year for the next 10 years

it's still not zero sum

people who are arguing against the stock market being zero sum

don't understand what zero sum means

people who are arguing that wealth cannot be created in an economic system, don't understand economies.

and of course this can be disproved thusly

is there more (or less) wealth than there was 200 yrs ago

in the USA?
worldwide?

if so, wealth can be created and destroyed.

futures markets cannot do so. they can only transfer it

because all net gains are offsetted by net losses

nimrods above think if u buy ABCD at 5, sell ABCD at 10, and it goes to 20, that is a "net loss".

lol

 

[whitster]

no, you don't

if i am hedging a position in the cash market, with a futures position that says nothing about the futures market being zero sum

it means that if you COMBINE a zero sum market and a non-zero sum market you get a non zero sum market

i'll make this math easy for you

zero sum market + non-zero sum market = a combined non zero sum market

zero sum market + zero sum market = zero sum market

non-zero sum market + non-zero sum market = non-zero sum market

the issue here is not about intermarkte positioning. it is about the structure OF individual types of markets

futures markets are ALL zero sum

the combined market of all zero sum markets is a larger zero sum market

anytime you introduce a non-zero sum market and aggregate it with a zero sum market, the aggregate market (the set of submarkets) becomes nonzero sum

 

[Cache Landing]

Quote from whitster:

cache landing, you are absolutely correct

as i try to explain to the dimwitted...

if the stock market goes down 20% a year for the next 10 years

it's still not zero sum

people who are arguing against the stock market being zero sum

don't understand what zero sum means

people who are arguing that wealth cannot be created in an economic system, don't understand economies.

and of course this can be disproved thusly

is there more (or less) wealth than there was 200 yrs ago

in the USA?
worldwide?

if so, wealth can be created and destroyed.

futures markets cannot do so. they can only transfer it

because all net gains are offsetted by net losses

nimrods above think if u buy ABCD at 5, sell ABCD at 10, and it goes to 20, that is a "net loss".

lol

Eventually they will read up a bit on game theory and realize where they went wrong. Don't worry about it, you've done your part to educate.

The interesting thing is that if you start a debate about whether or not the market is a losing game, the thread will die after a day or so, and that point is actually debatable. But, you start one on a point like this that is not even remotely debatable and everyone keep trying to prove it wrong. LOL

 

[NUTSNEAL]

Quote from NUTSNEAL:

Stocks (No to Zero Sum)
Futures (Yes to Zero Sum)


Simple Equation

FGL=futures gains on longs
FGS=futures gains on shorts
TFG=total futures gains


SGL=stock gains on longs
SGS=stock gains on shorts
TSG=total stock gains


FGL+FGS=TFG=0

Since the above equation is always (Yes at all times) equal to zero futures are ZERO SUM

SGL+SGS=TSG=X

Since this equation is not always (Probably has never even been once) equal to zero stocks are NOT ZERO SUM

X does not equal 0 at all times

To be a ZERO SUM GAME the equation must equal 0 AT ALL TIMES. Whereas in reality, even if the stock market stops trading or even drops to zero the stock equation will not equal 0.

I will just repeat this post I made back on page 54 on March 1st of this thread.

 

[NUTSNEAL]

But

I actually think the one on page 92 is actually better and maybe even more accurate.

 

[whitster]

can i repeat my senior year of high school

if i could go back with what i know now, i could rule them like a colossus of yore

 

[FullyArticulate]

Quote from NUTSNEAL:


Also, don,t forget that you must also ignore the crap game in the alley behind the drug store.

This is all sssssoooooo funny!

I don't know why you quoted me. The argument at the time was about wealth creation. I was pointing out that the futures market is not zero sum when you include the cash market, much like the stock market is not zero sum when you include the company that sold the stock in the first place.

The commercials and the companies do not LOSE money when the price of the contract goes up.

You laugh at people for not reading and understanding, and then you don't read and understand.

 

[NUTSNEAL]

Quote from whitster:

can i repeat my senior year of high school

if i could go back with what i know now, i could rule them like a colossus of yore

Man I hear that.

 

[whitster]

"futures market is not zero sum when you include the cash market,"

well... duh

the FUTURES market is zero sum

the cash market isn't

when you combine one with the other, you get a non-zero sum market

my weekly poker game is zero sum

when i combine it with the economy of ecuador, it's non-zero sum

 

[FullyArticulate]

Quote from whitster:

"futures market is not zero sum when you include the cash market,"

well... duh

You're so busy arguing with everyone, that now you're arguing with people who agree with you.