Zen, Yoga, Meditation and Trading

[Thunderdog]

*Sigh*

After all of this navel gazing and acrimony, I think I'll stick with

http://www.amazon.com/Relaxation-Re...=pd_bbs_1/102-9269443-7962503?ie=UTF8&s=books

as I mentioned on page 6 of this thread. I'll leave you enlightened souls to continue fighting among yourselves.

 

[Luke_P]

Quote from trader28:

More specifically it is to identify with your true self, a western occultist would say that includes perfecting the ego as the vehicle of the divine self but an eastern yogi would agree with your definition, different paths, same destination

The western occultist embraces desire and the eastern yogi transcends desire... I will assume we are all traders here so it is obvious the western path is far more suited to our lifestyles and career choice

I'm aware of this difference, however your term usage is not clear.

A Tibetan Buddhist Vajrayana/Tanrayana practitioner is said to not have to externally abandon desire forms and not prevent these feelings from arising but internally he is still to abandon grasping, attachment & ego to whatever arises in his mind.

That is my understanding at least but is more than likely flawed and of little accuracy.

 

[trader28]

Quote from Luke_P:

I'm aware of this difference, however your term usage is not clear.

A Tibetan Buddhist Vajrayana/Tanrayana practitioner is said to not have to externally abandon desire forms and not prevent these feelings from arising but internally he is still to abandon grasping, attachment & ego to whatever arises in his mind.

That is my understanding at least but is more than likely flawed and of little accuracy.

But that is hardly embracing desire, the western path developed as it did because we dont have the time or seclusion to meditate for 10 hours a day in a cave, temple or under a tree... ceremonial magic was actually developed to obtain the high degree of sensitivity the easterner has naturally from seclusion and detachment from the world, albeit for a short period before they must be very much of the world again

 

[Luke_P]

Quote from trader28:

But that is hardly embracing desire, the western path developed as it did because we dont have the time or seclusion to meditate for 10 hours a day in a cave, temple or under a tree... ceremonial magic was actually developed to obtain the high degree of sensitivity the easterner has naturally from seclusion and detachment from the world, albeit for a short period before they must be very much of the world again

I don't quite understand what this "western path" is and who developed it.

 

[trader28]

Quote from Luke_P:

I don't quite understand what this "western path" is and who developed it.

Not surprising, it is basically an alternative hidden history, which by the way is the literal meaning of occult (hidden) but it is peppered with some of the most famous names in history who obviously because of the danger from the church had to keep their beliefs secret or written in code culminating at it's height in the rennaisance and giving birth to modern day science in the west

 

[Luke_P]

Quote from trader28:

Not surprising, it is basically an alternative hidden history, which by the way is the literal meaning of occult (hidden) but it is peppered with some of the most famous names in history who obviously because of the danger from the church had to keep their beliefs secret or written in code culminating at it's height in the rennaisance and giving birth to modern day science in the west

That doesn't give me much to go on.

If your point is to just have fear, attachment, anger etc. as they are then why even bother meditating? We already have those.

 

[trader28]

Quote from Luke_P:

That doesn't give me much to go on.

If your point is to just have fear, attachment, anger etc. as they are then why even bother meditating? We already have those.

Heh heh... pretty sure you missed the point then... embracing desire to perfect the ego rather than trying to transcend it is equally valid, in fact maybe even more so when you consider that your higher self obviously had a very good reason for incarnating in the physical plane... would seem a pointless exercise to incarnate here just to deny it and try to transcend it... far more likely that there are lessons to be learnt from the physical plane that can only be learnt in a physical body with physical desires

 

[Luke_P]

Quote from trader28:

Heh heh... pretty sure you missed the point then... embracing desire to perfect the ego rather than trying to transcend it is equally valid, in fact maybe even more so when you consider that your higher self obviously had a very good reason for incarnating in the physical plane... would seem a pointless exercise to incarnate here just to deny it and try to transcend it... far more likely that there are lessons to be learnt from the physical plane that can only be learnt in a physical body with physical desires

Again, it is unclear to me what you mean exactly.

"perfect the ego"

Ego: a definition (of course not the only one):
"an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others"

By definition, the ego is not something that can be perfected. It is mostly responsible for our unnecessary ill-wills.

Getting back to trading, most traders wish to transcend two very common emotions: hope and fear.

IMO, these emotions arise because of our unreasonable expectations. They are unreasonable because they try and put the world and the market revolving around ourselves - which is caused by the ego. We feel a desired outcome must be achieved because "I" entered the position. Or that the market is scary because how could anything cause so much pain to "me". These are all ego based emotions. I am yet to see any benefit in whatever vague and hidden method you are advising in the context of trading.

It is obvious the ego interferes with trading by causing negative emotions. Meditation on calmness can decrease these effects. Meditating on lessening or removing the ego can also be beneficial. Your statements only seem to attempt to prove that your system/religion/method is superior to all others and to me that says that you've got a lot of:

...

ego.

If it's perfect, then good for you.

 

[trader28]

Quote from Luke_P:

Your statements only seem to attempt to prove that your system/religion/method is superior to all others and to me that says that you've got a lot of:

...

ego.

Actually I have not told you what my system/religion/method is, not even sure I have one... so maybe your ego decided to assume that


Ego is far more complicated than your simplistic interpretation even from a psychological viewpoint, but I guess I am using it in the more spiritually encompassing terminology for the lower self

 

[LeonPhelps]

I once caddied for the D'hali Lama. Big hitter the D'hali Lama. But after 18 holes, no tip. He stiffed me. So I ask the Lama, what's up, where's my tip, a little something for the effort, you know. So the D'hali Lama turns and says to me, "On your deathbed you will receive total consciousness...and go long beans above 600 whenever MACD is positive, 20 handle stop." So I got that going for me.