Zen and The Art of Trading

[dbphoenix]

Quote from martys:

How do other people get themselves occupied?

Depends on my relationship with the market. I know fairly quickly whether I'm in synch with the market that day or not. If I'm not, I quit and come back after lunch. If I am, my trading is generally done by lunch anyway.

The worst thing I can do when I'm not in synch with the market is sit there and try too hard. The most I'm willing to do under those circumstances is paper-trade.

But in synch or out of synch, if it weren't for TCM, I'd probably lose my mind.

 

[dbphoenix]

One of my favorite quotes:

If you really are interested in getting enlightened, one way would be to go off to Tibet, crawl in a cave, and sit there meditating for thirty years. Another equally good way – but much, much faster – is to trade the S&P . . .

-- Bill Williams

 

[Incorrigible]

Quote from dbphoenix:

One of my favorite quotes:

If you really are interested in getting enlightened, one way would be to go off to Tibet, crawl in a cave, and sit there meditating for thirty years. Another equally good way – but much, much faster – is to trade the S&P . . .

-- Bill Williams

I agree with this. The market is a very effective place to discover yourself. It can be very expensive though

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from Incorrigible:

I agree with this. The market is a very effective place to discover yourself. It can be very expensive though.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately as there seem to be an unusually large number of people throwing themselves against the bars. If asked why they trade, I'm sure they'd say that they trade in order to make money. But so few of them (none?) do. So they clearly are trading for some other reason, and they're unlikely to make much progress until they determine what that reason is.

 

[martys]

Quote from dbs119:

Well martys, the book that i mentioned "zen in the markets" is very simplistic. It says to cut your lossess short and let your profits run. Also the author talks about meditation and mental preparedness, but i do not want to become a true master in Zen, but to make money ))
The exercise i like most from this book is this
Look @ the numbers

27 28 29

He then wants u to say which is the first, the second and the third number and also which is the lowest, the highest the middle and if the first or the last is the lowest etc.
Then he says that you are ready to be a successful trader )

And also he says that what matters in the markets is not past or future but the present moment.
So what i did is buy high,trail stops and sell higher )))Pretty simple, don't u think so?

sounds like o'neil stuff. I guess it won't work for all market since the S&P has strong tendency to revert back to mean.

 

[Cutten]

Quote from martys:

I don't know of what good way to occupy myself - I don't think meditating while watching the screen is an answer... I have heard people selling book and stuff like that out there. Don't get me wrong. I do believe in maintaining awareness - that IS supposed to be the postmeditation practice but thinking I am meditating while watching the screen is probably a little pretentious.
I don't know... maybe I should get a toy or something while we are getting some for our kid. How do other people get themselves occupied?

Have you thoroughly analysed your past trades? Recorded and gone over your performance in detail - drawdowns, win rate, trade frequency, average profit and loss? Have you reviewed and try to draw lessons from every meaningful market move you have seen happen? How about researching some new markets, or looking at market events from the past? Getting new ideas from the methods employed by other successful traders?

Ok, we all need time to relax during the trading day, why else would anyone post on ET lol. But there is always more that can be done than there are hours in the day. Anyone who twiddles their thumbs during the quiet lunch period is doing so entirely out of choice, and not for want of useful trading-related things to do.

 

[dbphoenix]

Quote from dbs119:

Well martys, the book that i mentioned "zen in the markets" is very simplistic.

I'd say that's an understatement. Here are (reportedly) his rules:

1. Never add to a loser.
2. Add to a winner only.
3. Let profits run.
4. Cut losses fast.
5. Dont pick tops.
6. Dont pick bottoms.
7. Let the market make the decisions, not your ego.

Sound familiar?

 

[martys]

Quote from Cutten:

Have you thoroughly analysed your past trades? Recorded and gone over your performance in detail - drawdowns, win rate, trade frequency, average profit and loss? Have you reviewed and try to draw lessons from every meaningful market move you have seen happen? How about researching some new markets, or looking at market events from the past? Getting new ideas from the methods employed by other successful traders?

Ok, we all need time to relax during the trading day, why else would anyone post on ET lol. But there is always more that can be done than there are hours in the day. Anyone who twiddles their thumbs during the quiet lunch period is doing so entirely out of choice, and not for want of useful trading-related things to do.

I have a sheet for this stuff (discretionary reason for the trade and P/L) but never really plot a graph or something like that. Sounds like something to do... but I think they are more important in pinpointing problems early on. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[dbs119]

Quote from dbphoenix:

I'd say that's an understatement. Here are (reportedly) his rules:

1. Never add to a loser.
2. Add to a winner only.
3. Let profits run.
4. Cut losses fast.
5. Dont pick tops.
6. Dont pick bottoms.
7. Let the market make the decisions, not your ego.

Sound familiar?

Yep , that's it ))

 

[martys]

Quote from dbphoenix:

One of my favorite quotes:

If you really are interested in getting enlightened, one way would be to go off to Tibet, crawl in a cave, and sit there meditating for thirty years. Another equally good way – but much, much faster – is to trade the S&P . . .

-- Bill Williams

I agree that they have the same challenge in dealing the emotions and illusions put out by our ego but here is the difference:

If you are Enlightened, I am not talking whether having seen the nature of your own mind but I am talking about the real deal - realizing the nature... I am talking about at least some Bodhisattva level of realization.

Yes, they could be the same because you can handle poisons at that point. The afflictive emotions actually help to make the wisdom blaze forth like throwing woods into fire.

For us mere mortal who are totally out of practice - the afflictive emotions ARE poisions - you can practice handling it and turn it into spontaneously co-emerging wisdom but you have never practice enough. I think Bill has underestimate both the power of afflictive emotions and the power of an Elightened mind.

The most desired way I think is try to plan and set the whole thing up in a way so that you don't have to confront with your emotions all the time. Confronting them during live trading takes special care and awareness because after watching the screen too closely for a while - your mind will fall naturally into light hypnotic trance and open to suggestions, any self-sabotage and internal self-talk will just reinforce the negative cycle. This is the part I am currently actively working on. I have to turn any negative experience into positive reinforcement somehow.