Zen and The Art of Trading

Thanks Martys for this thread. Wondering, what's your or others opinion on this book, psychology of poker:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/104-4210670-5026312?v=glance&s=books


Where author writes about not only understanding oneself, but also other players in the game, their emotion, etc. Take a look at it.

Since you're trying to keep this thread focussed, need to know, is it ok for me to post a link to a good article about trading and meditation and how it can help the trader with mental space, etc.?

Thanks and keep up the good work.
 
You are welcomed to post anything. Even better if any of you can help me out to post the poker rules from the book and your thought and experience. You don't have to wait for me to post. The real purpose for the thread is to force our brains (mine turned into cheeze years ago) to think a little more about the rules so they sink in a little more.
Actually I myself often got off the tangent a little bit discussing Buddhist meditation which can be very tricky to integrate with daily endeavors. But after thinking about these poker rules, I am beginning to think the meditation and trading might not be that far apart. They require similar mindsets that counter our habitual tendency and in a way counter-intuitive. I am not saying I can do it...
In regard to the book, I am not really a poker player. You tell me. :D
 
"POKER RULE #10: The long run is longer than you think... Playing only the best hands can be frustrating... Anger and irritability can arise. The emotions can be severely tested. This is where Zen comes in"

As Marty Schwartz said "When I was able to separate my ego NEEDS from making money..." We have to be aware of our needs, and manage the emotions. You might think this meditation thing is just a bunch of ancestor-worshipping crap. For my whole life, I have not seen anything else addressing the problem of human experience more directly. You can't be "good" by pushing away "bad". You have to allow enough space for all the emotions and enough wisdom to pierce through the core of their very nature and not to fixate and get involve with the thought's content.

You might ask I don't have any pith instructions for the insight meditation from any teacher and I have never looked at the nature of thought and mind. But even with some simple technique of tranquility meditation, you can dampen the power of unwanted emotion a whole-lot with awareness - if anger arise, instead of jump on the wagon and get involved with the content of the thought, don't judge it and rest in the awareness of the angry thought. The angry thought dissolves and a clone arise again... rest in the awareness again - don't fight the thought or get involved - give it enough space and it will dissolve back into the very thing it was never apart of. While with insight meditation, you would look directly at the thought, spontaneous liberate it at the spot and rest in its nature. In both cases, leave the content of the thought alone. Like one of my teacher said: "Leave them (bad thoughts) alone! It is like a horror movie and it is not you."

Some stuff I wrote about the meditation on this thread, might be contrary to your beliefs or what you studied. They are not my opinions but the insights of the two thousand years of practical experiences but I am sure my understanding and explainations are far from perfect. People in the old days would die for this stuff but nowaday, you can get it from a $15 book and we tend to treated it as $15 worth. Give it a little time and see if it helps. Like Buddha said, if it doesn't work for you, threw it out.
 
I think there was one book called "Zen in the MArkets" by Edward Allen Toppel.. I highly recommend it .. IT is so inspirational.. The two months after i read it i were very nice and profitable ones..
 
Quote from dbs119:

I think there was one book called "Zen in the MArkets" by Edward Allen Toppel.. I highly recommend it .. IT is so inspirational.. The two months after i read it i were very nice and profitable ones..
More...

Thanks. What happened after two months?
 
Well, experienced a drawdown, then recovered, then addedd another market to trade, and on all-time highs now :)))
But the book is great. I also would recommend reading "Pitbull" from Marty Schwartz and "west of wallstreet" . They are goood books from REAL SP500 masters of disaster :))
Also u can read Gary Smith's "Live the dream... "
Enjoy!
 
"POKER RULE #11: Don't defend patience too strongly... You can't make yourself go to sleep through sheer strength of will. It is not about the strength of commitment - it is more of a gentler thing - a letting go."

We have to be aware and allow space for our ego's demands. Let the ransom demands be heard yet be objective in the moment, knowing we are still in the driver's seat - we are not being kidnapped and the threats are baseless. Be compassionate and forgiving to the feeble ego - that is how we give it space.

Since the neurotic fixations are held by tensions, relax your arms and legs and be aware. As the Zen saying goes: "When you eat, eat. When you sleep, sleep." May I add: "When you wait, wait. When you trade, trade."
 
Quote from dbs119:

Well, experienced a drawdown, then recovered, then addedd another market to trade, and on all-time highs now :)))
But the book is great. I also would recommend reading "Pitbull" from Marty Schwartz and "west of wallstreet" . They are goood books from REAL SP500 masters of disaster :))
Also u can read Gary Smith's "Live the dream... "
Enjoy!
More...

In what way did the "Zen and the Market" book help you? Thanks.

Did anybody notice any change in their trading since our discussions? Have you actively try the principles from the book. I am trying to apply some of the stuff I was babbling about to my own trading. I did notice some changes which I felt positive but nothing earth-shattering yet. It is just the increase awareness of my ego - whether it is hungry for actions or hoping for the improbable while in the trade. Although I am not saying I can turn it around every single times, and sometimes the awareness comes after the fact (trade was entered). It does increase my confidence overall even on the losing days because I can see some possibilities of fixing things in the future. There is also a little less beating oneself up. Any comments?
 
sorry not to reply earlier, but I just came back again.

Self hynosis - flashboy and others - it's all about an altertered state of internal harmony.

I love going in to trance as it just feel so calm.


If you are not finding what you want from your tapes etc, then first ask what you really want. Then see if the tape is really part of the answer.

if you have any questions, feel free to pm me - I am in and out so I may not get it for a while, but I will respond. Do remeber I am not a practitioner.

good trading
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top