I didn't realize there was a difference between having rules versus clear rules especially considering my "rules" statement was about your "clear rules" statement. I'll make sure I use exact words next time.
I'm glad that's cleared up.
Yukoner's Psychological Trading Journal
- Thread starter Yukoner
- Start date
I didn't realize there was a difference between having rules versus clear rules especially considering my "rules" statement was about your "clear rules" statement. I'll make sure I use exact words next time.
I'm glad that's cleared up.
Day #6 - This has been by far the most interesting and revealing day about myself. Trying very hard to be aware of the emotions I am feeling prior to trading. Early this morning I have some music going, feeling good about the day, and thinking positive... and this little voice hits me, and I write down..."Only deserve good things/success if I am doing everything right"
I wrote a bit more, but don't want to share it publicly. I will say this, I grew up as the son of a very, very conservative fundamental Christian Pastor.
Now, I started the day... and just couldn't quite seem to connect. I fought this stupid bias of being long, and then I had the perfect short setup on my methodology, and I didn't take it... even though I was telling myself to get short. It was like I had to just be perfect... no room for error. That would be "sinning" ya know...
Then later on in the day, I am down quite a bit, and fighting to make it back. Kept getting a good trade, and then would tightened my stops and get shook out. I am now seriously down, and fighting to not put my daily loss limit of $1000 a risk. I was so tempted to get into the market again, and try to win it back. Fortunately, I never did... I kept reminding myself what "Nebraska" says, "Trade for tomorrow. There is plenty of opportunity." I thought no way I am putting my combine at risk, even thought it was tempting.
Now the crazy thing, I trade my own money and I don't feel like this. (At least I don't think so) I'm exploring why I am feeling this, and that is a good thing. I actually feel like I made some real progress today.... like I unearthed a part of me that was holding me back. Fortunately I am able to have a meeting later on today, with my trading psychology coach....that will help me process the day better and what I learned.
-$951
I wrote a bit more, but don't want to share it publicly. I will say this, I grew up as the son of a very, very conservative fundamental Christian Pastor.
Now, I started the day... and just couldn't quite seem to connect. I fought this stupid bias of being long, and then I had the perfect short setup on my methodology, and I didn't take it... even though I was telling myself to get short. It was like I had to just be perfect... no room for error. That would be "sinning" ya know...
Then later on in the day, I am down quite a bit, and fighting to make it back. Kept getting a good trade, and then would tightened my stops and get shook out. I am now seriously down, and fighting to not put my daily loss limit of $1000 a risk. I was so tempted to get into the market again, and try to win it back. Fortunately, I never did... I kept reminding myself what "Nebraska" says, "Trade for tomorrow. There is plenty of opportunity." I thought no way I am putting my combine at risk, even thought it was tempting.
Now the crazy thing, I trade my own money and I don't feel like this. (At least I don't think so) I'm exploring why I am feeling this, and that is a good thing. I actually feel like I made some real progress today.... like I unearthed a part of me that was holding me back. Fortunately I am able to have a meeting later on today, with my trading psychology coach....that will help me process the day better and what I learned.
-$951
Hi Yuk, trader1 from tst. email me, we can catch up rraymond@eastlink.ca
You have built a method that works in past, right? So why not Let it trade it and not you? I read all your posts and they say how You feel, by putting you into equation, you have already lost, when you developed the method, was how you felt being back tested? Let the system made profits or lose profits, take "you" out of the trading. At end of your day, either your system did well or didn't do well, don't think about it, you already did that when you developed your rules.
I am a horrible trader if I think when markets are open, but I am a decent system trader, I am just a dumb monkey hitting buttons. Worse thing I can do is have a bias, I know the rules and do what is expected.
@wrbtrader,
thanks for the constructive feedback!
1) The home is recent, and the desk is new, so still getting a good feel for it. Now have a gel mouse pad with wrist support and a new mouse.
2) I have two teenage sons who live with me, so they wake up in the morning to go to school and are around for part of my trading day. They are supportive in me trading.
3) Physical health is excellent, pilates twice a week and surfing when possible. The metal health is good, but still going through the process of being recently not married. Dating an amazing girl now, and that is really going well.
You are bang on about finding out what is causing that fear... and resulting in early exits. I feel like today I found out what that is. Might share it later on tonight, just going for a break and to process what I have learned.
The whole point of doing this combine and challenging myself further is to confront those issues and find those blind spots. Thanks for the support...
Good Trades,
Yukoner
Yokoner,
A good exercise to do is to instead of annotating a price action chart with your trade signals (entries and exits)...
You should annotate your price action chart with events (e.g. kids just came home, ex-wife called, skipped lunch, headache) and emotions (e.g. felt stressed, angry, lonely) that occurred in your trading day along with doing the same in your morning prep before you begin actually to trade and in your prep after you finish trading.
Next, do another (exact same) price action chart and only annotate it with your entries and exits.
Compare the charts, review it and save them...on your computer or print them out. Do such for about a month and it should began to reveal what helps you in your trading and what hinders your trading...impacting your trading results in ways you may have not realized.
A good exercise to do is to instead of annotating a price action chart with your trade signals (entries and exits)...
You should annotate your price action chart with events (e.g. kids just came home, ex-wife called, skipped lunch, headache) and emotions (e.g. felt stressed, angry, lonely) that occurred in your trading day along with doing the same in your morning prep before you begin actually to trade and in your prep after you finish trading.
Next, do another (exact same) price action chart and only annotate it with your entries and exits.
Compare the charts, review it and save them...on your computer or print them out. Do such for about a month and it should began to reveal what helps you in your trading and what hinders your trading...impacting your trading results in ways you may have not realized.
So what I discovered about myself today is this:
In a nutshell, I am valuing my trading as being bad or good based on how I am living. "How can you possibly allow yourself to be successful in trading if you are doing this wrong and terrible thing." For the record, I'm not doing any "wrong and terrible" things, but this stems from the fundamentalist upbringing that "I only deserve good things/success if I am doing everything right."
I think this is why there is so much emotion tied to each trade I take. Feeling like I only deserve success if I am doing everything right... so then each trade takes on far more implications than simply this trade worked out or it didn't work out. So a losing trade becomes like I am being punished, and a winning trade raises the question of am I worthy of this success? All of this is neurons hardwired during my conservative upbringing, which still take time to change.
Can you see the trap here? It isn't the trading methodology, it is the implications of that trading. It is the mirror reflecting back who I am, how disciplined I am, and how I react to risk and reward.
So after a lengthy, and very helpful session with my trading shrink coach, Mark Selfin here is what I am going to try and do:
1) I am going to try and focus on whether I am acting in accordance with my trading rules. It's not about whether I win or lose, it is about what I do correctly. So I want to do that 100% with real effort.
2) The same way I go into my office on a bad day, and set aside any personal challenges and stress and just do my job, I am going to try the same thing in trading. I am going to try and set aside those "issues" or "stresses" and just do my job trading. They will still be there when my 3.5 hours are up... I can come back to them... but in that 3.5 hours I want to be totally focused on trading well in accordance with my rules.
Quite the journey, but worth it...
In a nutshell, I am valuing my trading as being bad or good based on how I am living. "How can you possibly allow yourself to be successful in trading if you are doing this wrong and terrible thing." For the record, I'm not doing any "wrong and terrible" things, but this stems from the fundamentalist upbringing that "I only deserve good things/success if I am doing everything right."
I think this is why there is so much emotion tied to each trade I take. Feeling like I only deserve success if I am doing everything right... so then each trade takes on far more implications than simply this trade worked out or it didn't work out. So a losing trade becomes like I am being punished, and a winning trade raises the question of am I worthy of this success? All of this is neurons hardwired during my conservative upbringing, which still take time to change.
Can you see the trap here? It isn't the trading methodology, it is the implications of that trading. It is the mirror reflecting back who I am, how disciplined I am, and how I react to risk and reward.
So after a lengthy, and very helpful session with my trading shrink coach, Mark Selfin here is what I am going to try and do:
1) I am going to try and focus on whether I am acting in accordance with my trading rules. It's not about whether I win or lose, it is about what I do correctly. So I want to do that 100% with real effort.
2) The same way I go into my office on a bad day, and set aside any personal challenges and stress and just do my job, I am going to try the same thing in trading. I am going to try and set aside those "issues" or "stresses" and just do my job trading. They will still be there when my 3.5 hours are up... I can come back to them... but in that 3.5 hours I want to be totally focused on trading well in accordance with my rules.
Quite the journey, but worth it...
Day #7 - woke up, felt good... actually felt really good about what I've learned over the last week. Reminded myself that there is brain habits in place, and so I need to stay focused on doing the correct trading. It isn't about whether I win or lose, it is about doing the correct trading with 100% real effort.
So all in all, I did that... not completely, but I did okay. I am really pleased about adding to a winning trade today. Exactly as per my plan, and it turned out real well. Just closed it 11 ticks early, before it hit my profit target. That made back some losses, but I should have stuck with the target.... that would have contributed 22 more ticks.
I also focused on trading less. On working hard on taking those right trades regardless of the outcome. Still felt the adrenaline hit me, and my hands shake a bit, but focused on breathing.... and kept asking myself what is the right thing to do here.
Lastly, past my 9:00 am cutoff and I saw an exact short setup that I would have taken. It was very tempting to just click the mouse and get short, and yea it went right to target, but I held back and a friend reminded me... stick to the plan!
Something has clicked, it is like I have uncovered the demon that is holding me back... now have it caged, and just have to weaken it slowly. That part of me, that knows what the right thing to do is, but wants to do what makes it feel good at that moment.
Heading out surfing now, perfect day for it....
+65
So all in all, I did that... not completely, but I did okay. I am really pleased about adding to a winning trade today. Exactly as per my plan, and it turned out real well. Just closed it 11 ticks early, before it hit my profit target. That made back some losses, but I should have stuck with the target.... that would have contributed 22 more ticks.
I also focused on trading less. On working hard on taking those right trades regardless of the outcome. Still felt the adrenaline hit me, and my hands shake a bit, but focused on breathing.... and kept asking myself what is the right thing to do here.
Lastly, past my 9:00 am cutoff and I saw an exact short setup that I would have taken. It was very tempting to just click the mouse and get short, and yea it went right to target, but I held back and a friend reminded me... stick to the plan!
Something has clicked, it is like I have uncovered the demon that is holding me back... now have it caged, and just have to weaken it slowly. That part of me, that knows what the right thing to do is, but wants to do what makes it feel good at that moment.
Heading out surfing now, perfect day for it....
+65
Excellent. I have found that when I am doing what I am told to do by trading rules, system makes less trades but profit more. I have been able to think that I work for a company, sitting down to me is like punching a timecard, I am only there to work, "they" gave me set rules to do my job. It is easier for me to think this way, company won't like if I don't do exactly the way it was written out and I don't want to get fired, if I do exactly what is expected of me whether it is profitable or not does not matter to me, just do my best and walk away. You get it down to like working on an assemble line, here comes another widget, you hit the button when you have to, then here comes another widget, you hit the button when you have to.....Success or failure has nothing to do with making widgets, often times personality conflicts will be a forever battle for the other 20 hours.
Day #8 - Slept well after a great day surfing. Woke up, and actually considered not trading. Just asked myself, do I need to be trading, or maybe I should just take a break. Then asked myself what was I worried about, I just needed to focus on trading well. Reminded myself to just "trade correctly".
I found myself again fighting fear, fighting the fear of losing and of being wrong. Interesting, because I actually had a short my first trade and my stop adjusted only 2 ticks above it and I wouldn't leave it and let it work... closed it withdrawing 5 ticks, only to see it continue on another 30 plus ticks. Of interest was the fear was there, even though it was only two ticks. So definitely something with "fear of losing" that is kicking in. Talked with my pysch coach and working through that.
I did put on a nice winning trade, but again struggled holding it through completion. I actually had written down in my plan what to do and each level was hit... yet, I adjusted it enough that I was stopped out with 31 ticks rather than the 60 ticks that was the final target of the plan. I knew it was a good trade, but that fear was seriously kicking in again and I was struggling with simply trailing a stop like my plan called for and then getting to that final take profit.
In speaking with my psych coach, it has become clear that I am really hard on myself. Rather than just telling myself that my trading assumption didn't work out, and moving onto the next trade, I tend to really make winning or losing a matter of personal worth... like its life or death. lol
Sounds crazy, I know...
Finally, I struggled with trading after my 9:00 am cutoff. Still wanted to jump into the market. Of interest a trade did setup that I had identified in my homework the night before, and it worked out really well... had I been trading, it would have been a solid 30 ticks gain. For future consideration, I may want to adjust that 9:00 am cutoff if a "homework trade" sets up, and my day allows me to remain focused.
+280
I found myself again fighting fear, fighting the fear of losing and of being wrong. Interesting, because I actually had a short my first trade and my stop adjusted only 2 ticks above it and I wouldn't leave it and let it work... closed it withdrawing 5 ticks, only to see it continue on another 30 plus ticks. Of interest was the fear was there, even though it was only two ticks. So definitely something with "fear of losing" that is kicking in. Talked with my pysch coach and working through that.
I did put on a nice winning trade, but again struggled holding it through completion. I actually had written down in my plan what to do and each level was hit... yet, I adjusted it enough that I was stopped out with 31 ticks rather than the 60 ticks that was the final target of the plan. I knew it was a good trade, but that fear was seriously kicking in again and I was struggling with simply trailing a stop like my plan called for and then getting to that final take profit.
In speaking with my psych coach, it has become clear that I am really hard on myself. Rather than just telling myself that my trading assumption didn't work out, and moving onto the next trade, I tend to really make winning or losing a matter of personal worth... like its life or death. lol
Sounds crazy, I know...
Finally, I struggled with trading after my 9:00 am cutoff. Still wanted to jump into the market. Of interest a trade did setup that I had identified in my homework the night before, and it worked out really well... had I been trading, it would have been a solid 30 ticks gain. For future consideration, I may want to adjust that 9:00 am cutoff if a "homework trade" sets up, and my day allows me to remain focused.
+280