Yukoner's 2015 Psychological Journal

Interesting point indeed Handle :
How much do you really value your health?

Yukoner: really shocking experience. trading while in a hospital bed!!!
Why did you felt the need ( obligation?) to continue trading instead of
focussing on your health? Did any family member approaved of your decision
to continue trading when ill?

Yes, no kidding... and I was trading size too. At least for me, it was. Why you ask? Well, a big part of it is you don't think you are as sick as you are... then you are also on drugs (steroids) to make you better, but they have many side affects that you really don't understand at the time. Of course you are trying to provide for your family, etc.
It isn't until you are out of that situation that you really start to understand most of what was going on. I remember looking back at my trading account and seeing the decline start to happen almost exactly when I started to take the drugs, and you know what? I said no way, I just want something to blame... I don't want to take responsibility. So yea, gotta fight through this slump.

Family members who don't trade, don't quite get what all is happening. However, my wife at the time, was just trying to figure out exactly who she was married to.. because I certainly wasn't the guy she moved there with. And of course, the world financial system was falling apart, so it was easy to blame bad trading on that...

So yea, I was humbled. If I had a team behind me, things would have turned out much better. The things us private traders don't really consider until all hell breaks loose. Learned a lot... stopped trading for a few years... but love it too much to walk away.
 
Thanks for the reply. What I am struggling with is actually having an objective trading plan that has a trading edge which I assume should be realized after 10 trades, or at least 20. My results to date have been terrible, but this is because I didn't have a trading plan, although I saw first hand how emotions came into this. I always thought that if I knew and tested my plan and saw that it was profitable that I would be able to just run it, not caring about any one trade since I knew that after a series of trades, certainly by the end of the week, I should be up.

Anyway, so when I was asking about how good your plan is (and not that I'm suggesting this), but do you think you could another trading your plan, and they could take it and trade it and make money? I asked because in a sense, this trader wouldn't in any way be emotionally connected to the plan as they didn't build it. They wouldn't care if it was stupid or not. It would very much be like how the experts in your journal say you have a job to do, which is to just carry out the plan as you should.

So I wonder that if the plan is indeed profitable, and if its easy enough to teach someone, then that someone should be able to trade it. Now if there is wiggle room as you confirm, then perhaps this new trader would also have trouble at this wiggle room stage because you didn't give him instructions about this wiggle room. So perhaps in real time, its this wiggle room where you are actually having to make a decision, and when you are forced to make a decision in real time, this is where it start to fall apart.

Another way I thought to look at it would be like this. If a trader told me he has a good plan, I'd say great, skype me, and tell me when to go long or short. I would just do as he says. You wouldn't have to worry cause it not your money on the line, so you could objectively tell me where the trade goes, and I would just take it. If though I see price moving against me, and you're not sure if I should get out or not, then to me this would tell me the problem is in the plan.

Anyway, I'm clearly no expert, but I fully understand how in the heat of the moment, I wasn't quite sure what to do and wish I had a plan to actually tell me. If I had that plan, then I wouldn't be worried because I would just take the quick loss and move on to the next trade, and I knew where the next trade would be because my plan told me. Heck, my plan should even tell me if after the loss, I should just take trade in the opposite direction since its moving the other way (this often of course doesn't work either and you get stopped out twice... LOL), but point being, it would be in the plan. So I just wonder if your plan has all of this, and if it does, then I'm very curious about where your deviation from the plan happens, where you start to wish or hope or pray or not exit as you should if your plan actually tells you to.

KP, in theory what you describe makes sense. Yet, you have also touched on what makes this the toughest job you will do for easy money. It is the ability to trust the plan, and execute it consistently in the heat of battle.

Everyone struggles with that. Day traders to position traders to swing traders. Then there is the group who automates, thinking that computers will remove the emotional component... forgetting that they are the ones who can override the computers, shut them down, and tweak them.

Secondly, the market is always changing which makes it harder because past performance is not indicative of future results. It is organic and all those numbers flashing on the screen are representing traders all around the world... and any single one of them can enter or exit a trade that will invalidate your edge at that moment.

It is why, you have to train yourself in the face of uncertainty to do consistent repeatable trading behavior.

It sounds easy, because we all plan for driving in sunshine and driving in the rain, but one day it snows... and you don't have a plan for that, but you still have to get home. If you don't have a good base at moments of high stress, then you default to your base condition of action.

In regards to the wiggle room... this is the dilemma for me (the deviation), and that is when trades go very well in my favor. Last year, I had waited patiently for the OPEC news, and when it happened I was ready... I went short in my own account (live) and I held it, and held it well... but all of a sudden I am up 300 ticks. I freaking know that I need to keep holding this trade, that this is the trade of the year, BUT that is when sticking to the plan becomes very, very hard to do.

Not knowing your style of trading, I can't offer you much advice other than to be certain that your trading system is robust. And I am not talking this voodoo technical analysis stuff that is peddled around like trader crack...
An easy litmus test, is that you should be able to see the same thing in any time frame that you look at AND it should work in any market that you trade. Once you get a solid system, then you get the pleasure of working yourself into the elite trader that you can become. That is when the real work starts.

There are plenty of trading systems that will make you profitable, it is us driving where the real work comes in.

FWIW
 
@Handle123 thanks for giving us an update. I am really going to weigh in on your words, and consider them some more. The part about "Am I worth it?" does resonate, so something I need to explore.

I do have one question for you, with your current health challenges and on the drugs, why do you continue to trade the markets?
For myself, 2008 was living in South America, laying in a private hospital bed with an IV in my arm... and I was still trading on laptop. Crazy, but I felt like that was what I needed to do to provide for family. Worst decision ever! The moment they put me on those drugs, I should have stopped trading... everything changed... my brain was highjacked by little white pills for about 4 months... I just didn't know it.
I had "unique" upbringing, don't care to go into it though, but very structured, unless you can't get out of bed, you went to school, you went to work, you went. I grew up with many principles they don't have now like prayer in school, God in governments and if people really trying hard in life to make it on their own-ok to give them a hand up. I have had a disease most of my adult life called Sarcoidosis, no cure, causes inflammation, treat the problem all you can do, I have many other problems as well, so what I should do since most of my problems won't go away, sit in corner watching birds fly? See how many dropping on the window? That is like people retiring and waiting to die. I am going to have very hard days till this cancer trails are over, not like it first time for me, just harder as I am in late fifties and been ill almost 7 years. No, I am not stop working, don't play golf, I don't read books other than other people's lives, and I don't care much to be with people. I am set financially, businesses, tax liens interest, rental property, they run automatically, and spent lifetime trading, somebody has to rob others of their money.
But thanks all for their thoughts, but way I don't go crazier is to trade, if you don't use your brain.....
 
Yukoner,

Familiarity breeds lackadaisicalness

Last Thur / Fri are past..., and won't repeat unless you change your actions - and do something different




=================================


Today;


This is Your Job Description / This is Your Making Widgets

===================================

(1) Take the first trade as per the trading plan;

(2) Note the PnL (or ticks). Immediately do a "go/no-go" analysis and disregard the PnL/Ticks -- "go" if your daily stop limit is not hit/surpassed.

(2.a) If "go" goto step (3).
(2.b) If "no-go", shutdown the computer, and do something else.

(3) When you get the signal for the next trade. Skip the trade. Instead, write the trade down in your notebook. Just sit back and observe the trade as it progresses (this is very important). Document (in audio/book) all your thoughts -- the urges to trade, all the self-talk you have, your feelings etc.

(4) After the trade in (3) is complete, go back to Step(1) and start all over again.

Notes:
(1) For any reason, when in step (1), you enter a trade not in plan, close the trade, write it down. Shutdown the computer, and walk away.

(2) Do not review the documented emotions as part of step (3) at the end of the day. Instead, review them the following Sunday morning.


================================


Today simply another new day

I am the same - You must do something different


No matter what happens / we think / we feel / mkt does

We work through it / we set it aside / we move on

We do our job

Screw the results

========================


Absolutely nothing within you has / will change - unless..., and until - you do something different


Two days does not a habit - or change make - it must be from this day forward


RN
 
Day 33 (Mo Step #5) - Had a really good weekend, and woke up on Monday refreshed and ready to trade... with one thought, Stick to the plan and do your job. "Seriously, it isn't that hard... you just have to change a few things."

So I did. I put on trades, it just seemed like the Mo tick ones were the winners, and I found that frustrating as I wanted to bank those ticks in account. However, I reminded myself that this wasn't my job... my job was to follow those rules. So I did.

I did find that talking out loud helped to diffuse any emotion I felt. That was interesting.

I also put on some really good trades, and even though a couple of times they had a decent profit of over 20 ticks, I still stuck to the plan of letting them work out. Pleased with that, as in the past I had the worst time cutting my winners short.

On the weekend, I implemented a new rule for the month of March, and that was "No adding to winning positions". This was based on keeping it simple and sticking to baby steps. Twice today, I had two excellent opportunities to do so, and yea I was tempted, but I also stuck with the plan and never added.

Thanks to all of you for your continued support and suggestions. Mo step #5 - CHECKMARK!

-74

+450 Mo Ticks
 
Day 33 (Mo Step #5) - Had a really good weekend, and woke up on Monday refreshed and ready to trade... with one thought, Stick to the plan and do your job. "Seriously, it isn't that hard... you just have to change a few things."

So I did. I put on trades, it just seemed like the Mo tick ones were the winners, and I found that frustrating as I wanted to bank those ticks in account. However, I reminded myself that this wasn't my job... my job was to follow those rules. So I did.

I did find that talking out loud helped to diffuse any emotion I felt. That was interesting.

I also put on some really good trades, and even though a couple of times they had a decent profit of over 20 ticks, I still stuck to the plan of letting them work out. Pleased with that, as in the past I had the worst time cutting my winners short.

On the weekend, I implemented a new rule for the month of March, and that was "No adding to winning positions". This was based on keeping it simple and sticking to baby steps. Twice today, I had two excellent opportunities to do so, and yea I was tempted, but I also stuck with the plan and never added.

Thanks to all of you for your continued support and suggestions. Mo step #5 - CHECKMARK!

-74

+450 Mo Ticks
Good job Yukon. I find it completely ironic how your mo ticks are banking! Lol.

Any correlation here?

Something to learn? Just an idea. Could also just simply be those were good ones in "a series of trades".
 
Day 33 (Mo Step #5) - Had a really good weekend, and woke up on Monday refreshed and ready to trade... with one thought, Stick to the plan and do your job. "Seriously, it isn't that hard... you just have to change a few things."

So I did. I put on trades, it just seemed like the Mo tick ones were the winners, and I found that frustrating as I wanted to bank those ticks in account. However, I reminded myself that this wasn't my job... my job was to follow those rules. So I did.

I did find that talking out loud helped to diffuse any emotion I felt. That was interesting.

I also put on some really good trades, and even though a couple of times they had a decent profit of over 20 ticks, I still stuck to the plan of letting them work out. Pleased with that, as in the past I had the worst time cutting my winners short.

On the weekend, I implemented a new rule for the month of March, and that was "No adding to winning positions". This was based on keeping it simple and sticking to baby steps. Twice today, I had two excellent opportunities to do so, and yea I was tempted, but I also stuck with the plan and never added.

Thanks to all of you for your continued support and suggestions. Mo step #5 - CHECKMARK!

-74

+450 Mo Ticks
Do you use a time stop? Like checking on average how long it takes your winners so you can get to breakeven plus one tick? I often think there are flaws in you Trading Plan as your profitable days are too small, you very rarely have big huge profitable days, so that tells me to have a Goal of $200-500 per lot then drop down 80% of size or to Mini crude contract so you don't ruin having profitable day? Have you considered?
 
I did find that talking out loud helped to diffuse any emotion I felt. That was interesting.

Called talking to our self (your self) - Good Stuff!!!!

Keep that up


======================

Good Job Today Yukoner

Get some rest - tomorrow ain't far off

RN
 
Good job Yukon. I find it completely ironic how your mo ticks are banking! Lol.

Any correlation here?

Something to learn? Just an idea. Could also just simply be those were good ones in "a series of trades".

Part of it might be the relaxing and speaking out loud the inner conversation... or it could just be the good ones in a series. We will see. :)
 
Do you use a time stop? Like checking on average how long it takes your winners so you can get to breakeven plus one tick? I often think there are flaws in you Trading Plan as your profitable days are too small, you very rarely have big huge profitable days, so that tells me to have a Goal of $200-500 per lot then drop down 80% of size or to Mini crude contract so you don't ruin having profitable day? Have you considered?

@Handle123 The time stop is something I only employ on the days I trade news. So might be worth while looking at this for other trades too. All though my average loss happens in about 2 minutes. Wins are about 3.5 minutes.
You are correct that there should be some big huge profitable days. The flaw in the trading plan has been me, as I was consistently cutting my winners short. I am working on this, and I am seeing an improvement on it.
I will consider what you are saying about having that monetary goal, then dropping down in size or to mini-crude.

However, thinking about this just had me go back and check my stats, which I now find very interesting:

October 30th to November 24th - 16 days traded
AVG WIN = $116
AVG LOSS = $43
Total win % = 39%

November 25th to December 18th - 14 days traded
AVG WIN = $146
AVG LOSS = $56
Total win % = 40%

December 19th to February 6th - 14 days traded
AVG WIN = $123
AVG LOSS = $71
Total win % = 41%

February 9th to March 09 - 18 days traded - current
AVG WIN = $126
AVG LOSS = $57
Total win % = 35

Two things that I think will help:
1) Sticking to my new daily loss limit of $400
2) Letting my winners work out a bit more
 
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