You have your trading plan, your trading plan makes or losses money. Your trading plan has already done all the thinking for you. So when you are working for "Trading Plan", trading the rules, anything you change is going against "Trading Plan" and you can get "fired" for not doing what "Trading Plan" hired you to do. Take Yukoner out of the equation, you just another one of us working for "the man" or business of following rules. The only thing you can do is either follow the rules or don't follow the rules and you might be fired. I taught my staff their wages come from doing the rules, has little to do with profits and losses unlike other firms, I don't want them to think, the "Trading Plan" already has all the thinking into it. Where they get to think when they program each week. When I trade, I just follow rules, no sense in changing or thinking.
Yukoner's 2015 Psychological Journal
- Thread starter Yukoner
- Start date
Day 15 - Slept not too great. Woke up around 2:00 am, then again around 3:30 am, and just restless. Wonder if I still might be on the Caribbean time zone.
My homework showed that we should have a trend down day. I started the day off with some small losses, and just seemed to get chopped up, and by the time EIA came out I was a bit below breakeven. I traded right after the report, but just wasn't seeing the follow through like I normally would have.
Now this is where things changed for me. I was down several hundred dollars for the day, but I could see the setups... however, I was trading scared... I could feel it. I kept telling myself to not be scared, that the next trade didn't matter. But I was so concerned on not hitting my daily loss limit of $1000, that I just was off. Felt like I was trading through sludge... I could see what needed to be done, but it was like I just couldn't stick with it.
I remember fighting a stupid long bias, once I saw 50 hold, and when I recognized it, I shouted out to not be biased.... to stay neutral.
I took a break, and came back and started looking at the market better. I could see the setups I needed to take, but I was just so tight on preserving capital that I wouldn't really let the trades work... and that isn't how to trade! I reminded myself not to trade my P&L, but how the heck are you supposed to do that when you are so close to your daily loss limit.
Then one of my textbook setups happened, and something I had done my homework on the night before.... I knew it would be a great trade, and that I should really run with it... but by that time my ammo was almost all gone. I just couldn't trade responsibly and still protect my capital and honor my daily loss limit. I then watched the market drop almost 50 ticks in my favor, and then on a retrace I tried to get in and actually traded over my daily loss limit... as soon as I realized how undisciplined I had become, I placed an order to close the trade out just below my limit. I then closed the computer down and stopped for the day.
The worst feeling in trading, isn't taking losses, rather it is not having enough ammo to trade your plan and then the market shows you that all your homework was right and it continues your direction another 200 ticks. Today should have been my day... I somehow managed to let my fear rule what I knew to do as a trader.
On the positive side I did stop trading... I knew I was undisciplined... I felt FOMO... I was willing to put my account at risk... not good, so I shut it down. Live to trade for another day. But believe me, am I frustrated...
-978
My homework showed that we should have a trend down day. I started the day off with some small losses, and just seemed to get chopped up, and by the time EIA came out I was a bit below breakeven. I traded right after the report, but just wasn't seeing the follow through like I normally would have.
Now this is where things changed for me. I was down several hundred dollars for the day, but I could see the setups... however, I was trading scared... I could feel it. I kept telling myself to not be scared, that the next trade didn't matter. But I was so concerned on not hitting my daily loss limit of $1000, that I just was off. Felt like I was trading through sludge... I could see what needed to be done, but it was like I just couldn't stick with it.
I remember fighting a stupid long bias, once I saw 50 hold, and when I recognized it, I shouted out to not be biased.... to stay neutral.
I took a break, and came back and started looking at the market better. I could see the setups I needed to take, but I was just so tight on preserving capital that I wouldn't really let the trades work... and that isn't how to trade! I reminded myself not to trade my P&L, but how the heck are you supposed to do that when you are so close to your daily loss limit.
Then one of my textbook setups happened, and something I had done my homework on the night before.... I knew it would be a great trade, and that I should really run with it... but by that time my ammo was almost all gone. I just couldn't trade responsibly and still protect my capital and honor my daily loss limit. I then watched the market drop almost 50 ticks in my favor, and then on a retrace I tried to get in and actually traded over my daily loss limit... as soon as I realized how undisciplined I had become, I placed an order to close the trade out just below my limit. I then closed the computer down and stopped for the day.
The worst feeling in trading, isn't taking losses, rather it is not having enough ammo to trade your plan and then the market shows you that all your homework was right and it continues your direction another 200 ticks. Today should have been my day... I somehow managed to let my fear rule what I knew to do as a trader.
On the positive side I did stop trading... I knew I was undisciplined... I felt FOMO... I was willing to put my account at risk... not good, so I shut it down. Live to trade for another day. But believe me, am I frustrated...
-978
Thanks @Redneck , I know that I wasn't detached.
After I had a few hours break, and thought more about the day, trying to recall where my mindset was... I wrote down a few points:
1) I was biased long at times, and even though we gapped down with no retrace and we had a negative EIA report on oil... Somehow I was still taking longs. That is old behavior that I need to change... I remember yelling out.. "don't try to pick a bottom" and taking my hand off the mouse. Over the next few hours market dropped at least 200 ticks after I said that.
2) I need more of the pit session trading day free to trade, because now the road map is there and you can see the future opportunities for the day much better. I may be trying to make something happen, before I leave for my office.
3) I overtraded. I wasn't nearly as selective in my trade location as I had been the past few days. I was trying to force something to happen, rather than staying neutral and letting something happen.
After I had a few hours break, and thought more about the day, trying to recall where my mindset was... I wrote down a few points:
1) I was biased long at times, and even though we gapped down with no retrace and we had a negative EIA report on oil... Somehow I was still taking longs. That is old behavior that I need to change... I remember yelling out.. "don't try to pick a bottom" and taking my hand off the mouse. Over the next few hours market dropped at least 200 ticks after I said that.
2) I need more of the pit session trading day free to trade, because now the road map is there and you can see the future opportunities for the day much better. I may be trying to make something happen, before I leave for my office.
3) I overtraded. I wasn't nearly as selective in my trade location as I had been the past few days. I was trying to force something to happen, rather than staying neutral and letting something happen.
Good stuff! Thank you!! Makes me think...
IDEA: I have been considering lowering my daily loss limit to only $500. It seems like the days that I trade past that, I don't often come back. Trading for small wins and building up the account first, I shouldn't even see $500 draw down, so if I get to that, then this should be a red flag that I am not in the zone, or not in sync, or its simply not my day.
That then makes it much more recoverable the next day.
Any feedback on that is appreciated....
That then makes it much more recoverable the next day.
Any feedback on that is appreciated....
I'm new so grain of salt. But maybe let your daily loss, be smaller percentage loss compared to your average daily gain. ie, daily average gain is $500, make daily loss limit less than average gain, for times sake say $300. In my mind, when one is consistent, the daily loss limit is easily recovered with an "average" daily gain. You don't have to "fight" back. Your just executing and trusting that it's a probabilities game.
Disclaimer
For newer traders looking for the appropriate risk per trade/ loss per day / # of losers per day - ignore what I say here - it is not in any way meant for you
Stick with 1/2% risk per trade..., or less - it'll serve you well as you're getting your feet get wet
==========================
Yukoner
How many (losing) trades in a row can you reasonably squeeze out ($500)
1 or 2 in a row - is well within normal expectation - and I don't think enough to warrant calling it a day (assumes they are not allowed to run of course)
3 - possibly - but I think this still to be expected (especially days with crappy PA)
4 - I could see this - maybe
=======================================
There needs to be clear delineation between normal losses (normal distribution of wins / losses)
And where you're able to say without doubt - today..., it just ain't happening - time to stop
This truly a dual edged sword
RN
For newer traders looking for the appropriate risk per trade/ loss per day / # of losers per day - ignore what I say here - it is not in any way meant for you
Stick with 1/2% risk per trade..., or less - it'll serve you well as you're getting your feet get wet
==========================
Yukoner
How many (losing) trades in a row can you reasonably squeeze out ($500)
1 or 2 in a row - is well within normal expectation - and I don't think enough to warrant calling it a day (assumes they are not allowed to run of course)
3 - possibly - but I think this still to be expected (especially days with crappy PA)
4 - I could see this - maybe
=======================================
There needs to be clear delineation between normal losses (normal distribution of wins / losses)
And where you're able to say without doubt - today..., it just ain't happening - time to stop
This truly a dual edged sword
RN
If you have $1000 profitable days on a regular basis, then a $1000 loss limit makes sense. If you have much smaller profitable days, then a smaller loss limit makes sense. That said, a lot depends on your trading plan and the combination of win % and R:R.
For example, if you have $500 days 60% of the time, then clearly a $1000 loss limit makes no sense.
Day #16 - Purposely went to bed later, and slept really well. Woke up, and felt good and ready for the day. Reminded myself of yesterday, and the mistakes I had made, and to watch out for them.
I remember telling myself, that I needed to try and trade less, and to make sure I didn't add to any losing trades. I also felt a bit cold, so turned up the heat and threw a sweater on. Had a quick premarket chat with a very good trading friend, and was ready.
The day started off well, I was consistently building up the account, and before I knew it I was up over $500. Felt great... but I was tired. I don't know why, but I remember wanting to add to a winning trade, and just having this internal struggle to do so... even though it was exactly what I was supposed to do. It was like my brain was on slow motion, and I didn't add and then watched it climb substantially further without my second position on. I closed that out, and was now up over $800.
Then it just seemed like I wasn't connecting right, not even sure what happened, but before I knew it I was back down almost to breakeven. I suddenly felt pissed off... how could I just give back $800 so easily. I then put on a trade, did well... and was up a few hundred, then took a break. I thought of stopping for the day, because I had a lot on my plate... but there was plenty of opportunity. So I came back in, refreshed, and again I just continued to do what I knew to do, and I got back up to that $800 mark. But my brain was tired... and I could feel it, I could feel the distraction. Plus I had to be going to my office soon.
So this is when I started making mistakes. I got too biased with market direction, and stopped paying attention to what was really happening. I went long, then added to it... and here is the mistake. I adjusted my stop loss further away, because I didn't want to take the loss. Total rookie mistake, and I know better! There is a reason the market is trading at that level, because right then that is the agreed upon price and the stops protect my account and exit me when my working assumption isn't working anymore. But it gets worse, I actually pulled the stops, and went to just trade out of the position.. BUT then it tumbled fast. Suddenly all my profit is gone. (TILT) and I am now in a negative position. It was like I was frozen, and I knew, I so knew I just needed to close it... so I did.
Now the kicker. I am down below my trailing max drawdown, which means at the close of the day I would have disqualifed the combine anyhow. So really... what choice do I have but to continue to try and trade my way out of it? Yes, I did have a choice... and this was part of my game plan strategy, if I hit that trailing max drawdown I was just going to continue to trade normal... but today I never did. I put on a trade, watched it go against me, and into my loss limit... yet I didn't close it. I was stoned on hopeitis. Just kept hoping and wishing it would go back my way. When it did, I closed out the trade. But then I started trading bigger size, trying to get back above that max drawdown. (of course that never ends well) I ended up taking a big loss, seconds before it reversed and went my direction 40 ticks. Irrelevant, because I was in total violation of my trading plan.
What really pisses me off is my lack of discipline!! (Especially after being up for the day) I know better. I knew when my brain started feeling like sludge, and I was tired, that I should stop trading or take a break. I actually remember telling myself to just be tough, and trade through it. BUT that isn't what I am supposed to do... THIS BUSINESS ISN'T ABOUT BEING TOUGH, ITS ABOUT BEING AWARE.
Feel like I want to take myself out behind the woodshed. I can never allow that behavior into my trading day. I know my rules are there to protect the account! The moment I violate them, I insert randomness into the equation.
Scheduled to talk to my psych coach today later this afternoon. I need to get to the bottom of why I tilted so badly today.
-1690
I remember telling myself, that I needed to try and trade less, and to make sure I didn't add to any losing trades. I also felt a bit cold, so turned up the heat and threw a sweater on. Had a quick premarket chat with a very good trading friend, and was ready.
The day started off well, I was consistently building up the account, and before I knew it I was up over $500. Felt great... but I was tired. I don't know why, but I remember wanting to add to a winning trade, and just having this internal struggle to do so... even though it was exactly what I was supposed to do. It was like my brain was on slow motion, and I didn't add and then watched it climb substantially further without my second position on. I closed that out, and was now up over $800.
Then it just seemed like I wasn't connecting right, not even sure what happened, but before I knew it I was back down almost to breakeven. I suddenly felt pissed off... how could I just give back $800 so easily. I then put on a trade, did well... and was up a few hundred, then took a break. I thought of stopping for the day, because I had a lot on my plate... but there was plenty of opportunity. So I came back in, refreshed, and again I just continued to do what I knew to do, and I got back up to that $800 mark. But my brain was tired... and I could feel it, I could feel the distraction. Plus I had to be going to my office soon.
So this is when I started making mistakes. I got too biased with market direction, and stopped paying attention to what was really happening. I went long, then added to it... and here is the mistake. I adjusted my stop loss further away, because I didn't want to take the loss. Total rookie mistake, and I know better! There is a reason the market is trading at that level, because right then that is the agreed upon price and the stops protect my account and exit me when my working assumption isn't working anymore. But it gets worse, I actually pulled the stops, and went to just trade out of the position.. BUT then it tumbled fast. Suddenly all my profit is gone. (TILT) and I am now in a negative position. It was like I was frozen, and I knew, I so knew I just needed to close it... so I did.
Now the kicker. I am down below my trailing max drawdown, which means at the close of the day I would have disqualifed the combine anyhow. So really... what choice do I have but to continue to try and trade my way out of it? Yes, I did have a choice... and this was part of my game plan strategy, if I hit that trailing max drawdown I was just going to continue to trade normal... but today I never did. I put on a trade, watched it go against me, and into my loss limit... yet I didn't close it. I was stoned on hopeitis. Just kept hoping and wishing it would go back my way. When it did, I closed out the trade. But then I started trading bigger size, trying to get back above that max drawdown. (of course that never ends well) I ended up taking a big loss, seconds before it reversed and went my direction 40 ticks. Irrelevant, because I was in total violation of my trading plan.
What really pisses me off is my lack of discipline!! (Especially after being up for the day) I know better. I knew when my brain started feeling like sludge, and I was tired, that I should stop trading or take a break. I actually remember telling myself to just be tough, and trade through it. BUT that isn't what I am supposed to do... THIS BUSINESS ISN'T ABOUT BEING TOUGH, ITS ABOUT BEING AWARE.
Feel like I want to take myself out behind the woodshed. I can never allow that behavior into my trading day. I know my rules are there to protect the account! The moment I violate them, I insert randomness into the equation.
Scheduled to talk to my psych coach today later this afternoon. I need to get to the bottom of why I tilted so badly today.
-1690