Your thoughts Mr. Maverick

Quote from Maverick74:

What is exactly is the Canadian model? Does it allow you to trade options? Futures? Overnight?

See I just don't understand how any prop firm can survive as a one dimensional model anymore. The world is far more complex now and with the advent of so many new and exciting products, you have to evolve or die. If the "Canadian model" is stock only, it too will die.

I think the only way to survive going forward is to have access to everything and anything so you as a trader can "evolve" with the market.
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I agree with you. Its nice to have access to more then just equities.

I was comparing the bucket shop "equity only" CBOE/CBSX firms advertised on elite trader against the Canadian model. Places like First New York Securities for example which allows a trader to trade several different products at once is for a different conversation.

But for the average ET member who wants to join a firm and trade remote, he or she is much better off with a Canadian firm.

-cheaper commissions
-no pointless U4 that takes forever to process
-no 1 yr lock up


The majority of CBOE/CBSX firms on elite trader offer no real benefit other then leverage.


Most use Laser or Sterling (which are fine, but its just third party software a trader has to pay anyways) you have to deal with a middle man all the time with book keeping questions, clearing questions etc


I personally feel most people on ET join a CBOE/CBSX firm is for leverage. They have a small 5-10k account and need the leverage. Going this route allows them to participate in the markets so they sign up for CBOE/CBSX firms which have the lowest barriers to entry. (small capital needed, no S7)
 
Quote from cactus_trader:



But for the average ET member who wants to join a firm and trade remote, he or she is much better off with a Canadian firm.

-cheaper commissions
-no pointless U4 that takes forever to process
-no 1 yr lock up
More...



Firms such as ?
 
Quote from cactus_trader:

I agree with you. Its nice to have access to more then just equities.

I was comparing the bucket shop "equity only" CBOE/CBSX firms advertised on elite trader against the Canadian model. Places like First New York Securities for example which allows a trader to trade several different products at once is for a different conversation.

But for the average ET member who wants to join a firm and trade remote, he or she is much better off with a Canadian firm.

-cheaper commissions
-no pointless U4 that takes forever to process
-no 1 yr lock up


The majority of CBOE/CBSX firms on elite trader offer no real benefit other then leverage.


Most use Laser or Sterling (which are fine, but its just third party software a trader has to pay anyways) you have to deal with a middle man all the time with book keeping questions, clearing questions etc


I personally feel most people on ET join a CBOE/CBSX firm is for leverage. They have a small 5-10k account and need the leverage. Going this route allows them to participate in the markets so they sign up for CBOE/CBSX firms which have the lowest barriers to entry. (small capital needed, no S7)
More...

So you are saying traders that live in the US can trade remotely with a firm based in another country? Why do these firms allow that? They have no re-course with the trader if they blow the firm up or if they do something that is illegal under Canada law.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

So you are saying traders that live in the US can trade remotely with a firm based in another country? Why do these firms allow that? They have no re-course with the trader if they blow the firm up or if they do something that is illegal under Canada law.
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yes, yes, they do, and can, and they can't do a thing about enforcement other than file suit in the jurisdiction of the executed contract. civil law between canada and the usa is nearly impossible to enforce in or out of court, which is why canadian banks rarely lend to canadian companies with usa assets or operating history.

conversely, subsidiary corporations and liability laws for LLCs in the usa make it impossible for canadian banks or brokers to collect on margin calls, or put claim on claimed assets or collateral.

and then there's always chapter 13 or 7 to wipe it all clean.

canadian banks don't just expect your first born now, they expect to be able to burn your life to the ground if you want to borrow money. which is why smart money, knows how to structure these things, and why smart money pays smart lawyers to keep the banks at bay.
 
Quote from CQNC:

yes, yes, they do, and can, and they can't do a thing about enforcement other than file suit in the jurisdiction of the executed contract. civil law between canada and the usa is nearly impossible to enforce in or out of court, which is why canadian banks rarely lend to canadian companies with usa assets or operating history.

conversely, subsidiary corporations and liability laws for LLCs in the usa make it impossible for canadian banks or brokers to collect on margin calls, or put claim on claimed assets or collateral.

and then there's always chapter 13 or 7 to wipe it all clean.

canadian banks don't just expect your first born now, they expect to be able to burn your life to the ground if you want to borrow money. which is why smart money, knows how to structure these things, and why smart money pays smart lawyers to keep the banks at bay.
More...

So why on God's green earth would a Canadian firm ever allow a US citizen to be a financial risk to their company.

A few years ago I met George Elio, CEO of Title Trading in Canada. And he told me he had to set up an office in North Carolina to go after the US market. That is why I always thought that a Canadian entity could not accept US citizens. But they could set up an entity in the US.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

What is exactly is the Canadian model? Does it allow you to trade options? Futures? Overnight?

See I just don't understand how any prop firm can survive as a one dimensional model anymore. The world is far more complex now and with the advent of so many new and exciting products, you have to evolve or die. If the "Canadian model" is stock only, it too will die.

I think the only way to survive going forward is to have access to everything and anything so you as a trader can "evolve" with the market.
More...


There is no "Canadian" model. Canadian banks have all their trading operations in Chicago and elsewhere, Toronto is mostly domestic. It's all part of the shell game they play to keep domestically reported profits and taxation at an "acceptable" level for public digestion, because if the Canadian public knew how much the banks make from their foreign operations, it'd be 1776 all over again.
 
Quote from CQNC:

There is no "Canadian" model. Canadian banks have all their trading operations in Chicago and elsewhere, Toronto is mostly domestic. It's all part of the shell game they play to keep domestically reported profits and taxation at an "acceptable" level for public digestion, because if the Canadian public knew how much the banks make from their foreign operations, it'd be 1776 all over again.
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Yes but we are not talking about Canadian banks. These little Canadian bucket shops are small companies with limited assets. I just can't see how they can take the risk of letting a foreigner blow up their company.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

So why on God's green earth would a Canadian firm ever allow a US citizen to be a financial risk to their company.

A few years ago I met George Elio, CEO of Title Trading in Canada. And he told me he had to set up an office in North Carolina to go after the US market. That is why I always thought that a Canadian entity could not accept US citizens. But they could set up an entity in the US.
More...

You just incorporate in Canada the same as you would in the USA, and maintain a bank account separately, file corporate tax returns, using a Canadian citizen as principal, which is easily any attorney. It's not that difficult, or complicated.

But yes, it makes more sense, and is incredibly easy, to set up a US account as a Canadian than the other way around, but not by much. All you need is a Tax Identification Number in the USA, and in Canada, a Business Number, both require a Social Insurance/Security Number, but anyone can be an officer of the company with no vested interest or stake in the underlying capitalisation of the company, and conversely sign personal guarantees up the wazoo with no real stake in the firm.

There's always a way to do these things, legal, not so legal, illegal, whatever works.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Don, it looks like CBOE firms are going to move to a 90/10 payout model. Better then Goldman but still a disappointment.
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Is this based on quotes you are receiving from other firms or do you have link that confirms this?
 
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