Your thoughts about index-futures brokers with low intraday margin

I have been using AMP and Rithmic for 2 and half years, not had any major problems with them.

The extra margin is sometimes helpful even if you don't ever use it.

eg. If you have two orders resting in the market but you expect to execute only one. Sometimes the broker's margin calculator will reserve margin for 2 lots even if you set the orders as OCO etc. If you don't have enough margin the second order gets rejected, you cant even place it.

If you are an experienced trader, $10,000+ intraday margin for 1 ES lot feels like being treated as a child or very novice trader. Like trading with stabiliser wheels on.
You cant leverage the profits in your account and go for big wins when market conditions are favourable and you are on a hot streak.
 
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Robert Morse said:
I will not comment on any futures broker. I will give you my 2 cents on part of the question, "Your thoughts about index-futures with low intraday margin." I find that SPAN margin provides great leverage. Currently, with ES close of 3,868.75 and a notional value of 193,437 and CME initial margin of $11,660, that represents only about 6%. I've seen it as low as 4.5%. 50% of SPAN is 3%. 25% of SPAN is about 1.5%. IMO, even 25% is too much leverage over time. A $500 initial requirement for day trading is only 0.258%. The current front month VX future is about 22.56 implying daily moves of about 1.41%. That means to me that anything below 25% can wipe you out with normalized index moves. Most traders do not do well with those numbers. It does not leave room to make mistakes. I hope my math was correct, it's early.
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Suggest you reflect upon this seriously. It seems current culture in vogue is to the least amount of work, with the least amount of resources, as if that somehow makes you "smart".

Reflect upon why you want this and if one is being caught up in the "method" de jour.

Consider doing the opposite: over capitalized (IB requirements + 20%), and use IB BECAUSE, the performance bond requirements are high. Then you are in a strong position, not a weak one.

I tell people "if you are doing what everyone else is doing, then there is a strong chance you are doing it wrong." By definition you can never get ahead, and frankly, you only need to be ahead of the crowd in life to have a good one.

PS: the math alone is a compelling argument.
 
Bad_Badness said:
Consider doing the opposite: over capitalized (IB requirements + 20%), and use IB BECAUSE, the performance bond requirements are high. Then you are in a strong position, not a weak one.
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Position sizing (or money management) is the key to making large returns in the markets.

A index futures day trader can use up to 50:1 leverage when they are on a hot streak, but use 10:1 leverage (or less) when they are not so hot.

Why limit yourself to low leverage all the time?

If you have the discipline and skill to be a profitable day trader, you will also have discipline and wisdom to know when to use high leverage and when not to do so.
 
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Businessman said:
Position sizing (or money management) is the key to making large returns in the markets.

A index futures day trader can use up to 50:1 leverage when they are on a hot streak, but use 10:1 leverage (or less) when they are not so hot.

Why limit yourself to low leverage all the time?

If you have the discipline and skill to be a profitable day trader, you will also have discipline and wisdom to know when to use high leverage and when not to do so.
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I agree, for experienced people. What I should have added is: "While you are starting out...", which is a good assumption of the OP.

Also one could add, that people want to immediately jump to "master-expert" levels without doing the basics and learning the ins and outs first. In this case going to slim margin for errors early on is an example of that.

First things first. Get proficient, then optimize, not the other way around. Scaling leverage can add a lot of stress and misplaced focus, for someone who is starting out.

In any case, the OP can make his own decisions. (im' out)
 
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I'm a happy customer with Ninjatrader. I considered leaving a while back, but decided to stay. While I've had some complaints with the software, the brokerage seems very reliable. Never had any issues with live trading there.

They've been lacking a better way to track your net performance / account activity as they've been printing PDFs to show you that, but they've now improved in that area as well by having a performance center online.

Also, while researching other brokerages I came to realize that there doesn't seem to be a perfect broker without any issues. So, I decided to stay where I am for now.
 
Robert Morse said:
I will not comment on any futures broker. I will give you my 2 cents on part of the question, "Your thoughts about index-futures with low intraday margin." I find that SPAN margin provides great leverage. Currently, with ES close of 3,868.75 and a notional value of 193,437 and CME initial margin of $11,660, that represents only about 6%. I've seen it as low as 4.5%. 50% of SPAN is 3%. 25% of SPAN is about 1.5%. IMO, even 25% is too much leverage over time. A $500 initial requirement for day trading is only 0.258%. The current front month VX future is about 22.56 implying daily moves of about 1.41%. That means to me that anything below 25% can wipe you out with normalized index moves. Most traders do not do well with those numbers. It does not leave room to make mistakes. I hope my math was correct, it's early.
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%%
REGARDLESS of your math \your bottom 2 lines are right.
[2] Have to consider some customers want happy, happy ,happy thrills more than profits.
[3] Have to consider some+ some tribes can do well hitting a buffalo, with a long bow on a horse:D:D Most cant; i like a high powered .30-06 or 5 shot 12 gauge.
[4]Cash price can be less, but profits can be much more.[4b] Some leverage can be better sometimes.
Good points on leverage = 2 edged sword; 6 edged arrow + brass + lead markets can work well sometimes.
 
goslow said:
Greetings. I am happy with IB and TWS, but am ready to consider an alternate broker with low intraday margins (ES, NQ). Reliability and quick fills are important. One-click order also. Ironbeam? Ninja?
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Hello goslow,

I love it. I love Ironbeam and Ninjatrader. Both are really great. Top Notch service.

I especially love Ninjatrader cause they have low margins in the ES. $500 per contract. This is blessing man

I love ES future trading. It is truly a blessing to trade this instrument. I am very thankful.
 
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