YOUR Religion

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from vhehn:

the problem is many flood myths predate the bible flood myth so that indicates the bible writers made it up from earlier stories.

Again, you're showing your paradigm. It COULD indicate what you said. But there are many things that show you are likely wrong:

1. It is oddly coincidental that there just happened to be a local Flood and geological evidence for it in the Mesopotamian region about the time a Flood would have taken place.

2. It is oddly coincidental that a huge number of cultures and pre-missionary ethnic groups have flood stories. This fits in nicely with the Biblical view that mankind had to rebuild itself post-Flood since all ihabitants would have been destroyed in a local, non-global Flood. From there every culture, or virtually every culture, carried out with it a Flood story. And this is exactly what the anthropological evidence reveals.

3. The Biblical account reads like a log book. It is very chronological and “scientific”. All other Flood stories that I know about, except perhaps the Babylonian, have clearly been embellished into the mythological arena. The Biblical account is nothing like the typical mythology of other cultures.

These aren’t proofs but they strongly suggest that there really was a local Flood in the Mesopotamian region which took out all or virtually of mankind about 20,000 to 40,000 year ago.

 

[jzlucas]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

The problem is that you are coming at this with the underlying assumption that it is false. And that’s fine, but it skews your objectivity (imo). Well, let me go through these one by one:

1. Sargon II story – weak analogy. There is no comparison imo in quality, etc.
2. If there really was a Flood – and as I’ve pointed out there is geological and anthropological evidence for a LOCAL flood in the Mesopotamian region at this time – then you would expect many culture to have traditions about it. The fact that some of them are similar only attests to the fact that there really was a Flood.
3. Jesus’ story. Here we agree in a sense. There is no way to prove the Old Testament stories for me as a Christian. But, as a Christian, I can and should prove the “story” of Jesus. The Book of Acts left us a template for example. And the acid test is this: do we still see the same phenomenon today.

What I’m getting at is this: if there is a Jesus, a devil, etc. then one would expect other traditions to counterfeit true spiritual phenomenon from God. For example, sacrifice has been practiced to deities and demons since the dawn of man and they are simply a counterfeit for the principof atonement that was well-understood.
So what you are saying makes sense from either the ahumanistic perspective or the Christian. T
The bottom line question is this: do miracles still occur today as in the Book of Acts?

I don't believe Sargon II to be weak. He was put into a basket selaed w/ bitumen and pitch and thrown into the Euphrates. Eerily similar to the Moses story. Yet the Sargon story came first.
Read Gilgamesh, parts are practically word for word, such as releasing a bird which in turn brings back a twig. Again, this story precedes Noah's. Yes, I agree that there was a regional flood. A religious book being influenced supernaturally would have clarified whether or not is was a global flood.
The virgin born saviour god stories speak for themselves. Its the same story, copied over and over through the ages. This to me is a more logical explanation than "counterfeits running around". Certainly God would have been a little more original than copying other humans stories for centuries. I was a Christian most of my life, but after doing a little historic reading concerning philosophy and religion, I've come to different conclusions concerning the credibility of the bible.

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from vhehn:

i don't dislike christianity any more than anything else that makes you surrender your mind in order to believe what you are told. christianity stands out because most christians are more educated than say muslims so when they preach and teach their children things like people rose from the dead or that there was a global flood that covered the highest mountains or that some unseen deity scooped up a handfull of clay and breathed on it and created man, they deserve to be challenged because they are being willfully ignorant and that is the worst kind of ignorance.

C’mon – you’re the Ice Man. You obviously have a lot of bitterness toward Christianity. And if you do, you do – that’s fine. But I think you should admit it.

I have a different definition of ignorance: ignorance is ignoring the supernatural simply because it is uncomfortable.

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from jzlucas:

I don't believe Sargon II to be weak. He was put into a basket selaed w/ bitumen and pitch and thrown into the Euphrates. Eerily similar to the Moses story. Yet the Sargon story came first.
Read Gilgamesh, parts are practically word for word, such as releasing a bird which in turn brings back a twig. Again, this story precedes Noah's. Yes, I agree that there was a regional flood. A religious book being influenced supernaturally would have clarified whether or not is was a global flood.
The virgin born saviour god stories speak for themselves. Its the same story, copied over and over through the ages. This to me is a more logical explanation than "counterfeits running around". Certainly God would have been a little more original than copying other humans stories for centuries. I was a Christian most of my life, but after doing a little historic reading concerning philosophy and religion, I've come to different conclusions concerning the credibility of the bible.

I disagree with so much of what you said, but I’m not sure what to do about it. I can see why you think the way you do (or at least I think I understand). My paradigm colors my interpretation and yours colors yours.

The bottom line always comes down to the supernatural. Let’s face it: there’s no way to “prove” God or Christianity. Personally, I think there are a lot of strong apologetic arguments for things like the Flood, the beginning of Genesis, the resurrection, etc. But they never really “prove” anything.

The reason I have no trouble believing the Bible is, well, let me explain it like this: if the Book of Acts is true, then the rest of the Bible is pretty easy to believe as well.

Peace and best wishes,

Curt

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

C’mon – you’re the Ice Man. You obviously have a lot of bitterness toward Christianity. And if you do, you do – that’s fine. But I think you should admit it.

I have a different definition of ignorance: ignorance is ignoring the supernatural simply because it is uncomfortable.

show me any supernatural event that has ever happened within range of a camera.
as far as christianity i grew up in it and this site is populated with that mindset so it gets the most attention but if muslims were on here promoting islam i would be saying the same things to them.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I disagree with so much of what you said, but I’m not sure what to do about it. I can see why you think the way you do (or at least I think I understand). My paradigm colors my interpretation and yours colors yours.

The bottom line always comes down to the supernatural. Let’s face it: there’s no way to “prove” God or Christianity. Personally, I think there are a lot of strong apologetic arguments for things like the Flood, the beginning of Genesis, the resurrection, etc. But they never really “prove” anything.

The reason I have no trouble believing the Bible is, well, let me explain it like this: if the Book of Acts is true, then the rest of the Bible is pretty easy to believe as well.

Peace and best wishes,

Curt

what do you mean if acts is true. acts is believed to have been written by paul and he is the one who hijacked christianity and changed it to suit his ideas.

 

[jzlucas]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I disagree with so much of what you said, but I’m not sure what to do about it. I can see why you think the way you do (or at least I think I understand). My paradigm colors my interpretation and yours colors yours.

The bottom line always comes down to the supernatural. Let’s face it: there’s no way to “prove” God or Christianity. Personally, I think there are a lot of strong apologetic arguments for things like the Flood, the beginning of Genesis, the resurrection, etc. But they never really “prove” anything.

The reason I have no trouble believing the Bible is, well, let me explain it like this: if the Book of Acts is true, then the rest of the Bible is pretty easy to believe as well.

Peace and best wishes,

Curt

Appreciate your responses, Curt. As far as Genesis is concerned...

Gen 1:26 - Animals were created before man
Gen 2:4 - Man made before animals

1:6 - Land came from water separating
2:4 - No water yet because it hadn't rained

Why so contradictory? The contradictions are even more vast concerning the resurrection. If need be, I could post those for you to comment on as well.

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:



... is that the New Age, which you’re dead center within

thank you! I was thinking maybe I was on the fringes. We'll see about the dead part in six years.

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:



What I think your missing is that the New Age, ... is at opposition with most world religions except perhaps Hinduism. You are pretending everything is Flower Power and Peace, but it isn’t.

The Flower Power part doesn't kick in till the last few months leading up to 2012 when the planets line up the same as when they were at woodstock, only better.

Is love in opposition to anything? Which things?

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from vhehn:

show me any supernatural event that has ever happened within range of a camera.

Just take a year of your life and devote it to finding the supernatural.

I guarantee you that you will find the supernatural.

I guarantee you that you will not capture it on camera.

P.S. I don't actually advocate trying to find the supernatural in a non-Christian way because from my standpoint what you usually find is demonic. But my point is this: the supernatural is just around the corner. You just need to put a little effort into and not put ridiculous constraints on it such as that it has to be in front of a camera. Imo that's just a convenient way of dismissing everything spiritual so you don't have to do any work...

 

[jzlucas]

Absurdities:

Numbers 22: 28-30 "And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass and said to Balaam... (Donkeys don't talk, not to mention snakes)


Joshua 10: 12-14 And the sun stood still and the moon, the sun stayed in the midst of heaven for about a whole day. There has been no day like it before or since. (In order for this to happen, the earth would have to come to a stop. Revolving at over 700,000 miles per hour, I doubt this happened... Unless a flat earth is perceived and thought everything revolved around us. Either way, it's wrong.)

Prophecy

Jeremiah 34: 4-5 Zebekiah would experience a peaceful death.

(Did the prophecy come true? Lets find out.)

Jeremiah 52:10-11 The King of Babylon slew Zebekiah's sons, put out his eyes, bound him in chains and was placed in prison till his death. (If God can't predict the future 20 chapters ahead in his own book, how can people believe anything in this book is relevant to today's current events?)