Your brain, your mind, and death

Quote from volente_00:

So you are saying all a newbie trader has to do to be profitable is to come in with the mindset of trying to lose on purpose on every trade and that is the holy grail ?
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Hi Volente,

I was writing my post as Jack and you were posting yours (I had not seen them).

No, that's not so, I think that Jack explains that in his post. For example - if I understand correctly, if you trade a volatile instrument and you set a really, really tight stop-loss you're going to lose whether you go long or short because you're going to be stopped out every single time (add commissions and slippage and you're toast).

However, I do believe that many new traders would be better off fading themselves (preferably in a simulator, of course).

Best trading,

Jorge
 
Quote from Sarvise:

Hi Duck,

Losing = easy

Losing on purpose = difficult

If losing on purpose was easy, so would be winning, you would just have to fade yourself.

Some answers were really smart and took advantage of some openings in the scenario initially proposed (no commissions, but no restrictions on scalping, options, etc.), but once you rule these out, I think that either people have missed the point of the OP, or they're just trying to give lilduckling a hard time :p

Best trading,

Jorge
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THANK YOU!!!
 
Quote from lilduckling:

You guys are CRAZZZYYY!!!!!!

You're telling me then, that a new trader starting out say in swing trading stocks, has a 90% chance of making money than losing!

Forget about me or any other nonsense ..... the point is, there is NO difference, repeat NO difference than trying to bring a swing trading account in stocks to Zero than trying to double it. As presented in this scenario. THE MENTAL CHALLENGE WILL BE THE SAME.

You guys are looking past this simple excersice AS presented and are failing to see the point.
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Where do I say that ?

I said that 90% will fail and the brokerage account statistics back it up with all proof you need.
 
Quote from Sarvise:

if you trade a volatile instrument and you set a really, really tight stop-loss you're going to lose whether you go long or short because you're going to be stopped out every single time (add commissions and slippage and you're toast).


Jorge
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So you agree it is easier to blow an account out to zero than it would be to double it ? Ducks seems to think otherwise.
 
havent read all the posts so may have been said.


would be extremely easy with leverage. just conitnually expose yourself as much as you can every day. you cant win every day, period.


would be interesting to see what would happen if he wasnt using excessive leverage though.
 
Quote from volente_00:

Where do I say that ?

I said that 90% will fail and the brokerage account statistics back it up with all proof you need.
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thank you.... so now you agree that what ever the objective is, 90 will fail.... because of failure to overcome mental wall.

remember, what is the difference if i buy stock xyz @ $50 or short xyz @ $50.

I will face exact same stress if trade goes against me or if losses begin to mount up.
Because the objective is slipping AWAY further from me.

If objective is to bring account lower..... especially under great stress to bring it lower, the problems one faces is the same as above.

If 90% fail ................. regardless
 
Quote from lilduckling:

You guys are CRAZZZYYY!!!!!!

You're telling me then, that a new trader starting out say in swing trading stocks, has a 90% chance of making money than losing!

Forget about me or any other nonsense ..... the point is, there is NO difference, repeat NO difference than trying to bring a swing trading account in stocks to Zero than trying to double it. As presented in this scenario. THE MENTAL CHALLENGE WILL BE THE SAME.

You guys are looking past this simple excersice AS presented and are failing to see the point.
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What you posted has three parts (thoughts).

Your view of things in each part is clear.

Apparently I am less fortunate than you are at applying logic to a problem. Fine with me.
 
Quote from Bo_D_:

havent read all the posts so may have been said.


would be extremely easy with leverage. just conitnually expose yourself as much as you can every day. you cant win every day, period.


would be interesting to see what would happen if he wasnt using excessive leverage though.
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MAKES no difference.......... heavly leveraged will also mean huge gains when the trade goes against you..... e .i. you'd be making money even faster if your trade is wrong.

And remenber.... fees and comish dont count for this scenario ...... leaving only the raw trade and mental aspect
 
Quote from volente_00:

So you agree it is easier to blow an account out to zero than it would be to double it ? Ducks seems to think otherwise.
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Hi Volente,

Actually I think there is some misunderstanding between Duck and you.

As far as I understand it, Duck will agree with you that it's easier to blow an account than to double it. I certainly do agree with you, but I respectfully think you're missing Duck's point (maybe you read the opening post and skipped later ones where he refines his scenario).

You are counting on slippage, commissions, etc. For instance, in the example you gave about the guy with the 5k, he lost 1k trading 48 contracts, so basically (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't trade the ER) he lost little more than the spread and commissions per trade. Just overtrading you can blow your account in no time, the same with options, etc.

However, if you take execution attrition (I just made this up :D ) out of the equation and try to lose on purpose, wouldn't a newbie (i.e. losing) trader actually make money while trying to lose it, just as he would lose money when trying to make it?

But, hey, let's not get too emotional about this, it's just a hypothetical scenario.

Best trading,

Jorge
 
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