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"You will be trading OUR Capital"
- Thread starter hippietrader
- Start date
Quote from hippietrader:
If these scam props really believe in their training, they won't be constantly recruiting newbies to give them the many thousands.
They can have their trainee trader trade very small, first on simulator, then trade very small live, increase buying power as the trader learns.
Even if a trading fee is merited, it is not worth the many thousands these fake props are charging.
Yes, I am pissed because I had responded to many trader job ads, only to find that all they want was an enormous training fee or enrollment fee they is becomes the firms capital (not even as a risk deposit).
WHY SHOULD ANY TRADER GIVE SUCH A FIRM MANY THOUSANDS IN ORDER TO GET A SPLIT BACK IF HE SUCCEEDS ??
The big issue here is that the firm has little or no interest in helping the trader in making profit. It makes its money from the enormous training fees it charges. For such a firm to say "you will be trading with the firm's capital" is an LIE.
Simple solution: get into a real prop firm.
Quote from l2tradr:
Simple solution: get into a real prop firm.
He doesn't want to go to a real prop firm. The suggestion has been made to him by more than a few people but he would rather bitch about things that he cannot change. This is like what, the third, fourth, thread he has started about this issue?
He just wants something for free.
Quote from bpcnabe:
He doesn't want to go to a real prop firm. The suggestion has been made to him by more than a few people but he would rather bitch about things that he cannot change. This is like what, the third, fourth, thread he has started about this issue?
He just wants something for free.
Not that I'm defending shady business practices, however, companies are in business to make money.
For what it's worth, someone with no knowledge, money, track record or experience can at least get in and try to make a go at it with these guys. A newbie has NO OTHER OPTIONS, except learn on his own from mostly free resources (and there are plenty out there), sim trade for a long time and save up capital. Most newbs dont want to hear that though.
It's a good business model to suck up some money from people that are newly out of work with doubts that they will ever be employed again. Maybe the naive ones... Many of them have some cash in hand...
There are firms that charge for training, want some money up front and are perfectly legit too... they will tell you that even with the training some are not suited for trading and they give them every opportunity to decide that for themselves before the training is over...
You are going to pay some dues one way or the other, like the previous poster said, trade the sim while saving up some bank, that is a form of dues paying, or find the shops that have legit training and pay them for it [hint hint: this is the fastest and easiest route] or pay dues by not doing your own due diligence and getting screwed over a few times.. hippie trader it's your choice, please go for it... soon...
There are firms that charge for training, want some money up front and are perfectly legit too... they will tell you that even with the training some are not suited for trading and they give them every opportunity to decide that for themselves before the training is over...
You are going to pay some dues one way or the other, like the previous poster said, trade the sim while saving up some bank, that is a form of dues paying, or find the shops that have legit training and pay them for it [hint hint: this is the fastest and easiest route] or pay dues by not doing your own due diligence and getting screwed over a few times.. hippie trader it's your choice, please go for it... soon...
Quote from hippietrader:
WHY SHOULD ANY TRADER GIVE SUCH A FIRM MANY THOUSANDS IN ORDER TO GET A SPLIT BACK IF HE SUCCEEDS ??
WHY SHOULD ANY FIRM GIVE SUCH (INEXPERIENCED, NO TRACK RECORD) TRADERS THOUSANDS OF COMPANY FUNDS IN WHICH THIS TRADER DOES NOT SPLIT THE LOSSES IF HE FAILS, ONLY THE PROFITS IF HE SUCCEEDS??
acepowerdrive
Guest
most of these $5000 accounts daytrade with 10:1 and close their trades at end of day so no 'real' capital is ever given to the daytrader since no shares are actualy purchased and delivered if it's intra-day trade.
they are more likely making money on commission and teaching fees.
with most brokers or hedge funds automating their daytrading or trading, there is less jobs in 'trading' compared to before automation. it seems like hedge funds would rather hire computer science grads and engineers since so much of their business needs computer automation and software for trading signals.
so there are very few true prop trading jobs that don't require a deposit to cover your losses.
they are more likely making money on commission and teaching fees.
with most brokers or hedge funds automating their daytrading or trading, there is less jobs in 'trading' compared to before automation. it seems like hedge funds would rather hire computer science grads and engineers since so much of their business needs computer automation and software for trading signals.
so there are very few true prop trading jobs that don't require a deposit to cover your losses.
Quote from hippietrader:
Beware...Most of the time it is capital you give them. You forfeit anywhere from from 5k to 12k as training fee, enrollment fee to be given a chance to trade the firm's capital.
This is a non-refundable fee, it is the firm's capital as soon as you hand it over. You will be ask to pay for more training as soon as you lose a small portion of your upfront fees.
That is how you will be trading the firm's capital!
This was a scam model first used by Oliver Velez. Now many so called prop firms are using this model to scam aspiring traders with a dream.
You give the firm the capital, you pay the commisions, the firms gets a split, What a great deal !!
A risk deposit, on the other hand, is yours until you lose it - and the firm can't claim that that you are trading their capital !
Quote from l2tradr:
Ok, why should they risk any of their money so you have a shot at making some? If you don't have a track record?
They don't risk anything ever!! They pocket many thousand upfront.
Since the new trader is limited to a very small loss a day, and be put back on paper trade if there are consecutive days of tiny loss, a small monthly training fee from new traders would cover any risk for firm and still gives a new trader a real shot! When the trader has a positive balance, this training fee can be dropped.
When a firm charges many thousands upfront, it is a scam as far as I am concern.
In any case, the firm gets the split form the money the trader puts in - it is not the firm's capital to begin with!
It looks like l2rtradr is shilling for such a firm !!