you need to trade a minimum of 77k and 10 lots to make a decent living

you guys need to realize that the ES moves like 30+ points a day if you count all the intra day wiggles...........now thats an opportunity for you to MAKE OR LOSE 30 points a day..........guys that say they can easily make 1-2 points on average per day don't realize that you can LOSE 1-2 points a day EVEN EASIER........its always easier to lose money than make it due to slippage and commissions......1-2 points a day is about 15-30% a year unleveraged..........THERE'S NOT A SINGLE TRADER out there making more than that year in and year out (remember I'm talking unleveraged returns)..........at 10 times leverage that comes out to 150%-300%.........at 150-300% you own the whole world in 12 years and at 15-30% you own the whole world in 120 years..........not many people can do that....1-2 point average per day IS A LOT.



classic futures piker thinking below:

wow.....the ES moves 30 points a day.......surely I can make 5 points a day easily..........or better yet I'll just go for 1 point a day at 20 lots for an easy 1k a day.


^^^Poor fellow later blows up as he realizes as easy it is to make 1 point its EVEN EASIER TO LOSE 1 point.








and averaging 1-2 points a day doesn't mean you make one and call it a day every single day with no losses.......it means you lose 1, make 1, lose 0, make 4.......and now you have a one point average.
 
Quote from osorico:


Who cares what the notional value is! You profit or loss has NOTHING to do with notional value. We are talking about futures contracts right?
More...

Spoken like a true Long Term Capital Management visionair.
 
Winning is just as easy as losing. Thinking losing is "easier" to do than winning is a psychological issue of the trader. It suggests, at the very least, a lack of confidence in the traders ability to recognize high probabilities, based on the traders own criteria and analysis.

Osorico
 
i am running a system that produces an approximate return of 2 points per day on average on the ES. but the DD is about 100 points though.

i cant imagine a system that generates this sort of return without carrying substantial risks, otherwise it would already been invented, implemented and exploited until its demise.

most traders fail because they insist in finding somet magic formula that would milk the eternal cow without no pain and this doesn't exist. most of these traders come and go while leaving their belongings in the market as they finally succumb to their unrealistic dreams.

meanwhile, the market is always the same. a great place to make or lose money, in which only the fittest survive by bending the rules and reversing the odds in their favor. this has nothing to do with hoping for whatever points per day your target is, but rather, risking the necessary capital to come out ahead. think about it.
 
Quote from asap:



most traders fail because they insist in finding somet magic formula that would milk the eternal cow without no pain and this doesn't exist. most of these traders come and go while leaving their belongings in the market as they finally succumb to their unrealistic dreams.

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The best sentence I have come across on ET in a long time.

Golden, PERIOD.

Good Luck!
 
Quote from asap:



most traders fail because they insist in finding somet magic formula that would milk the eternal cow without no pain and this doesn't exist. most of these traders come and go while leaving their belongings in the market as they finally succumb to their unrealistic dreams.
More...


you channeled the trading god when you wrote that.


on a side note: increasenow is a blow up waiting to happen.
 
<i>"Who cares what the notional value is! You profit or loss has NOTHING to do with notional value. We are talking about futures contracts right?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoken like a true Long Term Capital Management visionair"</i>

Wrong. Spoken like the only one who knows what he's talking about.

Here's a question for the mistaken traders' still hung up on notional value = dollars traded per contract.

We have a $1 million account. We split that in five sections, each $200k dedicated to trading emini indexes, crude oil, grains, currencies and bonds respectively.

Per each segment we only wish to risk -2% or $-4,000 per trade. Y'all still with me?

Now, what do we need to know? The notional value of corn, soybeans, wheat, 30yr bond, 10yr note, ER2, EC contracts and likewise factor all of that dynamic gibberish in?

Or, do we merely need to know how wide our stops must be to remain safe from market noise = therefore determine how many $$$ that makes for risking -$4,000 per trade position?

The underlying value doesn't mean jack to a trade position. Dollars risked on a stop versus expected in profit returns are the only thing that counts. Leveraged instruments have nothing to do with notional value for traders... dollars leveraged are all which count. Hence the term "leverage".

*

Notional value is for stock investors, and long-term hold investors only. Traders deal in dollars risked, our widgets at the gaming table are dressed up in commodity suits of all descript.

And for the second time in this thread, <b>no day trader of any instrument can ever "own the market or financial world"</b>. There is a low ceiling of saturation on size for any pure daytrader of any market... well below that of any sizeable position trader, and none of those own the market yet.

Hope that clarification helps :D
 
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