You daytrade, What is your days goal?

[lescor]

Quote from omniscient:

lescor -

i see your point and appreciate your contribution. the thing is if the high jumper used 4 or 400 more attempts, he'd never lose his personal best if he didn't surpass it. in our game we are always at risk of losing our profit (not that anyone wants to trade not to lose). this, to me, is where appropriate goal-setting comes in handy. if you realistically have it in you to do 2x your current goal, your current goal might be too low.

also, the jumper has a height goal within his overall goal of winning the competition. in our game it's kind of reversed - we have goals for winning trades first, then build other goals (daily, weekly, and so on).

another thing to keep in mind is the individual. some guys may live and die by individual trade goals. others daily. others weekly. and so on. and overall objective colors how someone uses goals - some guys wouldn't want to trade more than a couple of hours while others curse the fact there are only 24 hours a day to trade.

another factor can be level of experience. i think it becomes much easier to focus more on weekly and monthly goals once you have the experience and confidence to consistently reach accelerated daily goals. imho.

i guess the bottom line is that you use goals and have clearly figured out what works for you. that's the real goal and the real challenge. congrats on getting there and i wish everyone else the best on their own journey.

again, thx for your insight and perspective.

take care

omni

Point taken. Not an ideal illustration, but the point I was trying to make is that if things are going well, why stop?

I guess I'm making an assumption that people would have the ability to execute their plan according to the plan itself, not their current P/L. Obviously many can't do this, but if not, then it is even more important to forget $'s and focus on the trading itself. If you cannot yet trade without having your P/L color your perspective, then I'd say you shouldn't be setting any monetary goals, but working towards executing your plan only.

Not enough traders, and certainly most newbies, do not grasp just how important it is to seperate money from trading. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but if you focus on the P/L, it will take away from how well you are trading. Yes, you can make note of it, and once you can seperate emotion from money, then you can focus on your P/L all you want, since you can do it without taking away from your ability to trade as you should.

I guess that's a long-winded way of saying that if you are a newer trader, you should forget about daily goals all together and focus on executing your plan and controling risk only.

 

[omniscient]

Quote from lescor:

Not enough traders, and certainly most newbies, do not grasp just how important it is to seperate money from trading. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but if you focus on the P/L, it will take away from how well you are trading.

you bring up a very important concept here. and, reflexively, it may sound counterintuitive. the money/profit aspect of trading seems so obvious, so direct, but it really is a different aspect altogether. i think it becomes more difficult when people try to not trade for the money but also try to use the pain of losing money as an educational reinforcement to minimize making mental trading errors. essentially they are trying NOT to think of money when they win but DO think of money in a loss. my guess is that it goes one way or the other, not both.

anyway, good points and good info. thx again lescor.

take care

omni

BTW: uh, i fully realize trading motivation (money, points, wins, etc.) opens whole new can of worms. i'm not suggesting we do this for free just that P/L be thought of as a result of trading, not the other way around.

 

[Cheese]

Stress or tension .. there is lot that you can do as you come out of childhood into adulthood. You can adopt and train yourself in calm mode. That then becomes your reflex. That is not to say that if you let things go and allow a sloppy and erratic attitude back into your life then stress and tension can return.

Trading does not cause me tension. I've done most of the work needed in my trading model before any days trading and I just have to come out and play every day.

I would find it exhausting if besides the actions required, I had to do most of the thinking, planning and calculation on the day itself every day in order to pull off what each day offers.

Calm mode is the key.

 

[buylo]

Quote from bighog:

You get out of bed, you are flat, you spent years moving up the learning curve, stress motivates you, you are a proven winner verified by the checks you write yearly to Uncle Sam...

What is your daily nut?

How about getting a minimum of 5 handles in the ES? The amount of contracts or stocks etc is immaterial, just the minimum amount extracted from the mkt in terms of handles etc.

Stress; is it helpful to your trading? do you get laser focused in the heat of a volatile battle? What moves your wagon? Under pressure is your saying: Screw the horse, load the wagon? or do you hide from stress?......................

In the service, a general said to me: Stress makes hero's, the soldier just springs into action, totally fearless, totally focused on his objective, no thinking just a pure action machine, nothing can stop him. (these days that could also apply to the gals serving also).

I have grappled extensively with goals. I think I can say that having daily goals is a pretty dangerous way to trade. If the market is not readable and you are trying to reach your daily goal, you find yourself trading for this goal and not trading the opportunity.

The hardest thing to do is wait in the market. Part of the 9 to 5 mentality is being at work and "working." How do you work and make money at trading. You trade. Well, sometimes the best thing to be doing is not trading.

It's certainly hard to wait if there is a greater need to make money, but one should trade the good spots and not for daily goals.

 

[pierson]

Quote from CONR:

If you got ROP for $1000 more a year that is extremely cheap and worth it. Typically it's several hundred $ more/mo. Are you sure it's only $1000?

yes, it is extremely cheap. It felt like a no brainer to me, not to say its right for everyones situation.
I think it is because i'm still relatively young as far as life insurance goes. They said they have never even had anyone my age come in and get 1 million before.
The odds of them having to pay that 5 million is extremely low. I would have to die in my mid 50's. But, i thought it will be nice to get a check for a couple hundred thousand if i don't die. And right now it lets me live with the assurance that my wife and kids are taken care of.
Its really a smart deal for the insurance companies imo. Then they get to use your money for 30 years and they know you won't switch companies on them easily.

Pierson

 

[Cheese]

Quote from buylo:
I have grappled extensively with goals. I think I can say that having daily goals is a pretty dangerous way to trade. If the market is not readable and you are trying to reach your daily goal, you find yourself trading for this goal and not trading the opportunity.

The hardest thing to do is wait in the market. Part of the 9 to 5 mentality is being at work and "working." How do you work and make money at trading. You trade. Well, sometimes the best thing to be doing is not trading.

It's certainly hard to wait if there is a greater need to make money, but one should trade the good spots and not for daily goals.

Assuming daytrading, the goal is what the day offers.

If it is YM you will have the day range and the gyrations each day.

Just as an example, you can get a very simple slow smaller range day which say does a dip in the first half hour and then builds slowly with little counter move. Say it does 48 points bottom to top. I'm content to take what that particular day offers.

 

[r-in]

I see a combination of views. I initially planned to just make money! Then I went to 1 es point a day and to add contracts as my account increased. At the same time if the trading is good I will look to take more and that leaves me a cushion for the days I beat myself up. I have added the mini Russell and look for a point a day in that also as a minimum goal and again have added contracts. Same thing with the ec if I'm up early enough to trade it before the other markets open. Although with the ec I'm still dreaming of a full point day. My initial goal is 8 ticks on it, which on a half way decent day can be exceeded by quite a bit.
On life insurance, after I was married and a kid was on the way I did get talked into a whole life policy. I finally sat down about 3 years after that and did the math. I'm a term fan now.

 

[Deringer]

Don't set any daily goals in trading or else you're going to be stubborn an fuk up and lose all discipline because your mind becomes pre-occupied with making the daily cut. Trade in a flow. Take advantage of opportunities if it's there, but don't force trades just because you want to meet a rigid daily goal.

However, on a flip side, I think it's a good idea to set a daily limit on how much damage you should take and not ever go over that.

 

[dvshucks]

Set goals on being a good trader. Make a list of what you think its going to take to be where you want to be. Check them off every day. You can't be a hero everyday but you can practice being a good trader.

If you're going through a rough stretch, then yeah, make a goal and when you get to it take off for the day to clear your head.

If you have to make daily p&l goals, when you get to your goal, cut back your trading and only play what you think are surefire winners.

I do like setting high goals for the month that if I make, I take the rest of the month and take a trip out of town for a long weekend. I actually got to go a couple times this year