You can't handle the truth!!!

Quote from KymarFye:



Sure, it's an open forum. You have the right to be an ass, and I have the right to ask you to stop. Deal with it.

I already told you exactly why I consider your attacks on me and your absurd and annoying misreadings of my arguments unwelcome - not because I care what you think of me, but because, as I said, they at best make for a distraction from any actual discussion, and otherwise mainly serve as surrogate ad hominems for individuals who were taking the other side, and who, if they cared to show they had any principles, and were actually interested in discussion, would join me in asking you to knock it off.

I suppose you could try to start a "let's analyze, criticize, and insult KF thread," but the moderators would remove it as a TOU violation.
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I don't know what your agenda here really is.

Most of us made, and continue to make fun of Wild/MSFE as he/she/it/machine is a joke, a caricature of some form of extremist thinking.

In my opinion, your current defending the administration borders on the same time of blind loyalty to a position, and you are coming off like a right wing non thinking individual, who is married to his political position, ala Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity.

Gone is the objectivity and patience of expression, and in their place is frustration and attacks on the people who differ with your opinion. It is one thing to attack someone's position, and another to attack the person.

The latter, attacking individuals for the position they hold, creates polarity, not grounds for discussion.

When the issues become secondary to party loyalty, we are now outside of the realm of seeking truth, and into the realm of spin control.

This is what I see from you lately, spin control, and personal attacks on those who don't agree with you.

If what they say is nonsense, a simple rational case presented by you will convince those with an open mind, and a rational approach to finding the truth of a situation.

It is just my opinion, but I sense that you in fact afraid that you may have hitched your wagon to the wrong track once again, and are living off of faith in party, rather than clarity of mind.

Those with a balanced intellect laugh at Rush and Hannity and their constant state of spin.

Try to find your balance once again, you appear to have lost it, or you may begin to percieved as just a more sophistaced version of Wild/MSFE.

Whatever your credibility is worth in this forum, is in my opinion, at stake and danger of being lost.
 
I would also like to remind you that we hit Afghanistan first for obvious reasons, and we only hit Iraq after a lot more intelligence gathering was done.

You can't say Bush is a liar and still be intellectually honest yourself. You don't know the truth, you don't have the info you need to make a decision.

 
Quote from dotslashfuture:

I would also like to remind you that we hit Afghanistan first for obvious reasons, and we only hit Iraq after a lot more intelligence gathering was done.

You can't say Bush is a liar and still be intellectually honest yourself. You don't know the truth, you don't have the info you need to make a decision.
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I don't know the answers, but I do think the questions are quite important when possible WMDs are floating around. When I see important questions dismissed as unimportant, that for me is a red flag.
 
Kerry says Bush misled Americans on war

By Ron Fournier, Associated Press, 6/18/2003 21:04

LEBANON, N.H. (AP) Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said Wednesday that President Bush broke his promise to build an international coalition against Iraq's Saddam Hussein and then waged a war based on questionable intelligence.

''He misled every one of us,'' Kerry said. ''That's one reason why I'm running to be president of the United States.''

Kerry said Bush made his case for war based on at least two pieces of U.S. intelligence that now appear to be wrong that Iraq sought nuclear material from Africa and that Saddam's regime had aerial weapons capable of attacking the United States with biological material.

Still, Kerry said it is too early to conclude whether or not war with Iraq was justified. There needs to be a congressional investigation into U.S. intelligence on Iraq, he said.

''I will not let him off the hook throughout this campaign with respect to America's credibility and credibility to me because if he lied he lied to me personally,'' he said.

Kerry fielded several questions about Iraq from a small group of anti-war Democrats after he addressed about 250 people in a downtown Lebanon park.

Kerry supported the war and said Wednesday, ''I'm glad Saddam Hussein is gone.'' But the Massachusetts senator has criticized the president's diplomatic efforts. He that concern Wednesday saying Bush had alienated U.S. allies in the runup to war.

As for the question about U.S. intelligence, Kerry said he has led the call for a congressional investigation and pledged, ''We will get to the bottom of this.''

Kerry said his service in the Vietnam war and his experience as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and former member of the Intelligence Committee of the Senate make him the Democrat best suited to question Bush's efforts on foreign policy.

''I believe I can hold President Bush accountable if they have misled us,'' he said.

Addressing senior citizens in Hanover later in the evening, Kerry said he supported a congressional investigation because it was not clear whether Bush acted on poor, distorted or politicized intelligence.

''I don't have the answer,'' he said. ''I want the answer and the American people deserve the answer. I will get to the bottom of this.''
 
remember that Tony Blair is LABOR PARTY, he is not in the "right wing conspiracy". He had absolutely no selfish reason to go along with it, he just thought it was necessary.

why would he think that ? Maybe he KNOWS something, just like the CIA and Bush knew something. In fact, there was A LOT of info shared before a single bullet was fired.

If this is a conspiracy, it is the greatest one of all time. At some point you have to get a grip and go with the most likely scenario, which is that they saw a danger and they destroyed it.
 
Quote from dotslashfuture:

remember that Tony Blair is LABOR PARTY, he is not in the "right wing conspiracy". He had absolutely no selfish reason to go along with it, he just thought it was necessary.

why would he think that ? Maybe he KNOWS something, just like the CIA and Bush knew something. In fact, there was A LOT of info shared before a single bullet was fired.

If this is a conspiracy, it is the greatest one of all time. At some point you have to get a grip and go with the most likely scenario, which is that they saw a danger and they destroyed it.
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Maybe Blair was misled? Who knows? Is it an important question to get answered? I think so, and I belive most Americans would like to know for sure.

As political animals, you would think both Blair and Bush would know that if they did not have solid evidence, this could become fodder for their political opposition if WMD weren't found.

The current backpeddling by both Bush and Blair and the spin control does give cause to wonder.
 
U.S.: Iraqi drone proves secret weapons
EDITH M. LEDERER
Associated Press

UNITED NATIONS - The United States seized on the discovery of an unmanned Iraqi drone to reinforce its contention that Baghdad has secret weapons programs, claiming Monday the pilotless aircraft could deliver chemical and biological weapons.

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/5361872.htm


Iraqi drone 'very primitive': expert
From correspondents in London

AN Iraqi drone found by UN weapons inspectors is of "very primitive" design and is definitely not capable of flying 500km as suggested by US Secretary of State Colin Powell, Jane's Defence Weekly said today.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6130936%5E401,00.html
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:


It is one thing to attack someone's position, and another to attack the person.

The latter, attacking individuals for the position they hold, creates polarity, not grounds for discussion.
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These are pitifully hypocritical statements coming from someone whose main contribution has been to attack me for supposed biases and alliances without engaging on any of the specific issues that were under discussion. You post a series of ridiculous insults under the heading of "Fye's beliefs," and you have the gall to accuse me of "attacking individuals for the position they hold."

When on this thread and elsewhere I present specific arguments and references, you respond with generalizations and empty assertions, then return to your beliefs about me and the possible influence of my personal history on my statements.
 
look, Bin Laden is still loose, and now Sadam is on the run with $2Billion and probably a bit of small pox, anthrax, shoulder launched anti-aircraft missiles, etc.

Now is not the time to spill the beans for short term politicial gain.
 
Quote from KymarFye:



These are pitifully hypocritical statements coming from someone whose main contribution has been to attack me for supposed biases and alliances without engaging on any of the specific issues that were under discussion. You post a series of ridiculous insults under the heading of "Fye's beliefs," and you have the gall to accuse me of "attacking individuals for the position they hold."

When on this thread and elsewhere I present specific arguments and references, you respond with generalizations and empty assertions, then return to your beliefs about me and the possible influence of my personal history on my statements.
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I see you took my constructive criticism to heart.

Oh well.
 
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