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You are NOT aloneâ¦..trading and depression.
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Quote from freewilly:
Well, I have to admit I suck in trading. I think I am pretty smart and succeed in almost everything I am serious about, from sports to academic, to hobbies, etc, but not trading.
Now, trading is my only hobby. I am not lazy, constantly I stay up till 2 or 3 am doing research. It has been 1.5 yrs, but I still haven't found a clue yet. There are many times I thought I found the holy grail, but turned out I lost pretty big.
Some times i am really mad at myself. Trading is THE toughest work I have encountered in my life. I am not going to give it up easily. It is about HOPE.
Cheers everyone.
I think once you admit to yourself that there is no holy grail then you will take an important step in your development as a trader. Once you realise that simplicity is the key to the whole thing - then you will get that important "lightbulb" moment.
Remember some 80% of the trading is now done by machines, so be careful out there.
I wrote 4 sheets worth of info... I decided in the end that was for me but what I will say is this..
Everything you need... and I do mean everything.. if it distills down to one book is mentioned below.
You will not get an edge in the market untill you understand yourself.
You will not consistently profit until you learn to curb those ridiculous arbitrary trades made on a whim and not made after waiting specifically for that Which YOU do best and ONLY THAT untill you add a new HIGHLY PROFITABLE SET UP YOU ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND AND SEE IN THE TECHS OR THE FUNDAMENTALS..
IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT YOU!!.
....and you seem to me like a very succesful guy. Family, been trading, honest.. a lack of self rightoeus ego.. which equates to an ability to lerarn, your not denying fundamentals (the best traders ever trade over fundas but long time frame... e.g. Soros and yet you embrase your failure wholeheartedly..
Id say IF you KEEP LEARNING.. and gain power from that, your attitude actually is text book successful.. you sound balanced contemplative and ready to accept your faults... there are so many on these boards who are not.. I too have blown up.. relax its "de Riguer"...
question is for the sake of your self and all that care.. WTF R U going to do about it now?.. give up?... cmon.. do me a god damn favor.. Take some control over your yourself for gods sake
(I mean that in the best fighting spirit possible and it is absolutely not a personal attack in any way...
Get back up on your feet soldier and god damned complete the task...
Who told you it was that easy? Even an option position like a Long Strangle would have saved your sorry ass... this is a jungle... you have to fight for our food.. and be positive about YOU and what you can do for your family..
(I actually believe from what you have said, that you absolutely smell of success to me SO LONG AS U R COMMITTED TO SELF IMPROVEMENT.... nothing les will do Im afraid)
First and only book you need? "Trading in the Zone " by Mark Douglas
thats it right there.. forget everything else.. you are the edge not your SYSTEM..Control YOU first.. MASTER YOU... it begins with that book...
PS Dont listen to some of the fools who will make themselves better to by mocking you... they are the ones if successful now will blow up later why?... if you build a Castle on sand do not surprised what happens thereafter... You on the other hand have an opportunity.... losses in the market ALWAYS remain an investment.. untill you give up like a sad loser.. your r not one of those dude trust me... no way..
regards
Paul
middle finger to anyone else that attempts to bring this honest and sincere guy down... (yeah sure.. like you never had a loss in the markets...)
Everything you need... and I do mean everything.. if it distills down to one book is mentioned below.
You will not get an edge in the market untill you understand yourself.
You will not consistently profit until you learn to curb those ridiculous arbitrary trades made on a whim and not made after waiting specifically for that Which YOU do best and ONLY THAT untill you add a new HIGHLY PROFITABLE SET UP YOU ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND AND SEE IN THE TECHS OR THE FUNDAMENTALS..
IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT YOU!!.
....and you seem to me like a very succesful guy. Family, been trading, honest.. a lack of self rightoeus ego.. which equates to an ability to lerarn, your not denying fundamentals (the best traders ever trade over fundas but long time frame... e.g. Soros and yet you embrase your failure wholeheartedly..
Id say IF you KEEP LEARNING.. and gain power from that, your attitude actually is text book successful.. you sound balanced contemplative and ready to accept your faults... there are so many on these boards who are not.. I too have blown up.. relax its "de Riguer"...
question is for the sake of your self and all that care.. WTF R U going to do about it now?.. give up?... cmon.. do me a god damn favor.. Take some control over your yourself for gods sake
(I mean that in the best fighting spirit possible and it is absolutely not a personal attack in any way...
Get back up on your feet soldier and god damned complete the task...
Who told you it was that easy? Even an option position like a Long Strangle would have saved your sorry ass... this is a jungle... you have to fight for our food.. and be positive about YOU and what you can do for your family..
(I actually believe from what you have said, that you absolutely smell of success to me SO LONG AS U R COMMITTED TO SELF IMPROVEMENT.... nothing les will do Im afraid)
First and only book you need? "Trading in the Zone " by Mark Douglas
thats it right there.. forget everything else.. you are the edge not your SYSTEM..Control YOU first.. MASTER YOU... it begins with that book...
PS Dont listen to some of the fools who will make themselves better to by mocking you... they are the ones if successful now will blow up later why?... if you build a Castle on sand do not surprised what happens thereafter... You on the other hand have an opportunity.... losses in the market ALWAYS remain an investment.. untill you give up like a sad loser.. your r not one of those dude trust me... no way..
regards
Paul
middle finger to anyone else that attempts to bring this honest and sincere guy down... (yeah sure.. like you never had a loss in the markets...)
I have to respectfully partially disagree. There is undoubtedly a large component of overcoming personal traits, weaknesses, impulses etc but the bottom line is that the Reticular activating system [crocodile level part of the brain] overides the cerebral cortex, the cerebral cortex does not override the reticular Activating system when your life or your money are on the line.
Livermore's great and overlooked point was that you have to structure things so that your weaknesses can't get you - which in itself requires overcoming weaknesses.
By understanding this I started to routinely make 100-200% rather than 15% in a stock. Value investing can pretty much has this built in if you are buying at a valuation that represents a long term low - Analysts supposed "value" calls are an exercise in falloing knife catching.
In trading I have noticed that alot of supposedly different methodologies are actually doing the same thing but coming at it from a different angle or picking it up a different way.
Most of the stocks I make big money in will have low price/book, but I am scanning technically to reduce the waiyting time and to get proof that may buy point which most would regard as "value" does not represent a value trap.
In futures this kind of dramatically skewed risk:reward (which is what it is looked at from another perspective) is there for 2 seconds (if it actually is there, and if it not ctually wiped out by somebody picking up the phone and taking off a hedge) , in daily stocks it is there for 2 days. What I try to do is increase the chance that a risk:reward profile I buy will be the one that plays out.
Risk to reward of buying a call or a lottery ticket is good, but the chance of it playing out is small. Risk:Reward of writing insurance or options is completely haywire but with diversification and sample size it plays out better than many high R:R plays because you have a high probability of making lots of actual but small gains and a smaller probability of taking a large loss. So it is not just risk:reward.
I think we are all looking at basically the same thing but from different disciplines.
I scan by risk:reward profile i.e odds framework first and then by setup criteria and then by intuition/experience. think of the pro poker player who looks at the odds and then MAY look at the faces/behaviour of the oyher players and the amateur who looks at the faces of the players and then MIGHT look at the odds framawork.
Most businesses have a set of parameters which if you stay within you should make money and which if you stray outside of you will lose money,. they allso have a risk or skill profile set. McDonmalds relies on duplicationm, others rely on having a sales team that can operate at the upper end of the envelope. I saw this happen, the company made huge profits and then lost a team and went bankrupt because it could not find people who could duplicate that profile, the ones in the business still wer eworking with lower profits but a less extreme profile.
Livermore's great and overlooked point was that you have to structure things so that your weaknesses can't get you - which in itself requires overcoming weaknesses.
By understanding this I started to routinely make 100-200% rather than 15% in a stock. Value investing can pretty much has this built in if you are buying at a valuation that represents a long term low - Analysts supposed "value" calls are an exercise in falloing knife catching.
In trading I have noticed that alot of supposedly different methodologies are actually doing the same thing but coming at it from a different angle or picking it up a different way.
Most of the stocks I make big money in will have low price/book, but I am scanning technically to reduce the waiyting time and to get proof that may buy point which most would regard as "value" does not represent a value trap.
In futures this kind of dramatically skewed risk:reward (which is what it is looked at from another perspective) is there for 2 seconds (if it actually is there, and if it not ctually wiped out by somebody picking up the phone and taking off a hedge) , in daily stocks it is there for 2 days. What I try to do is increase the chance that a risk:reward profile I buy will be the one that plays out.
Risk to reward of buying a call or a lottery ticket is good, but the chance of it playing out is small. Risk:Reward of writing insurance or options is completely haywire but with diversification and sample size it plays out better than many high R:R plays because you have a high probability of making lots of actual but small gains and a smaller probability of taking a large loss. So it is not just risk:reward.
I think we are all looking at basically the same thing but from different disciplines.
I scan by risk:reward profile i.e odds framework first and then by setup criteria and then by intuition/experience. think of the pro poker player who looks at the odds and then MAY look at the faces/behaviour of the oyher players and the amateur who looks at the faces of the players and then MIGHT look at the odds framawork.
Most businesses have a set of parameters which if you stay within you should make money and which if you stray outside of you will lose money,. they allso have a risk or skill profile set. McDonmalds relies on duplicationm, others rely on having a sales team that can operate at the upper end of the envelope. I saw this happen, the company made huge profits and then lost a team and went bankrupt because it could not find people who could duplicate that profile, the ones in the business still wer eworking with lower profits but a less extreme profile.
The harsh reality is that 95% of you will NEVER make any money trading...
And 95% of you will never run a profitable restaurant, etc...
Because that's how ** competitive ** the business world is.
Students and people in their 20s just have NO IDEA how hard it is.
It's not just a trading business...
This pretty much applies to ANY business.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is:
(1) Very naive
OR
(2) Lying to you so they can sell you something
The sooner a person in that 95% realizes they cannot win...
The better off that person will be.
And 95% of you will never run a profitable restaurant, etc...
Because that's how ** competitive ** the business world is.
Students and people in their 20s just have NO IDEA how hard it is.
It's not just a trading business...
This pretty much applies to ANY business.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is:
(1) Very naive
OR
(2) Lying to you so they can sell you something
The sooner a person in that 95% realizes they cannot win...
The better off that person will be.
If you want to get rich operate a mundane business type that is already proven to be viable. That is what most rich people do.
The inventors, entrepreneurs, mavericks and visionaries that make great business magazine copy are not the norm and probably occurr with the same frequency as successful traders...........................
The inventors, entrepreneurs, mavericks and visionaries that make great business magazine copy are not the norm and probably occurr with the same frequency as successful traders...........................
I blew up twice during my early years, the feeling was awful. You feel like if you cheated on the woman you love, or lied to your children. I had trouble sleeping, constant chest pains, I'm not sure if it was depression or not but certainly anxiety to the extreme. Could not concentrate and nothing matter except "if I could go back in time".
Only those who keep on learning with the utmost perseverance truly make it.
Until you know you have an edge there is no real reason to leave paper trading. When you think you have it start working on the absolute minimal size to get a taste of going cash and increasing the psychology skill.
Screen time required could take many years, discipline and preparation could take even more.
This is not for everyone, so make sure you are certain this is for you.
Do not believe for a second profitable daytrading is not possible. However, like almost everything great in life it takes massive effort and dedication.
I gave up many times but I kept fighting back. Analyzing charts and just looking at price action and the tape is free or relatively cost effective, you can do a whole lot without actually trading, albeit at one point you will obviously have to face your demons to prove yourself.
There are no gurus, there are no holy grails, there are no magic indicators, it's just your ability to develop the necessary skills to make it.
And last but not least, it's what in your heart and not in your bank account what matters the most so in the end if you blew up but are still a good person, who gives a shit.......money comes and goes, a good human being stays with us forever.
Anek
Only those who keep on learning with the utmost perseverance truly make it.
Until you know you have an edge there is no real reason to leave paper trading. When you think you have it start working on the absolute minimal size to get a taste of going cash and increasing the psychology skill.
Screen time required could take many years, discipline and preparation could take even more.
This is not for everyone, so make sure you are certain this is for you.
Do not believe for a second profitable daytrading is not possible. However, like almost everything great in life it takes massive effort and dedication.
I gave up many times but I kept fighting back. Analyzing charts and just looking at price action and the tape is free or relatively cost effective, you can do a whole lot without actually trading, albeit at one point you will obviously have to face your demons to prove yourself.
There are no gurus, there are no holy grails, there are no magic indicators, it's just your ability to develop the necessary skills to make it.
And last but not least, it's what in your heart and not in your bank account what matters the most so in the end if you blew up but are still a good person, who gives a shit.......money comes and goes, a good human being stays with us forever.
Anek
Quote from QuantPlus:
The sooner a person in that 95% realizes they cannot win...
The better off that person will be.
your essentially saying, instead of trying to pursue your dreams, you should just face the facts and say, "i'm going to fail...so i might as well just quit now." How does that make the person better off? I would think that would make the person MORE depressed, and feel even more worthless!
Thats like telling a kid who plays basketball..."statistics say you're never going to make it into the NBA...so you might as well just quit now...your life will be better off."
The question isnt, why do 95% of people fail....the question should be, what are the 5% doing differently? And most of the time its just hard-work, determination, the ability to learn from their mistakes, and a drive to succeed (and never give up) thats far more than someone in the 95%.
vectors101
Guest
gambling addiction and fraud and market manipulation and cheating (artifical intelligence) is dirty secret in wall street that nobody wants to admit.
Quote from Businessman:
No it was the Architect that said that.
Although at the time it did remind me of what Livermore said in Stock Operator.