You are more likely to become a top Hollywood actor or popstar than profitable trader

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Quote from logic_man:

Yes, the odds are against the daytrader. The only reason I jumped in to this thread was to post a paper that showed the odds aren't quite so negative as was being said.

Personally, I would advise anyone to avoid daytrading, too, for the most part, or, to create a strategy which can be automated so they can work a job while their strategy executes. If that works out, there will be plenty of money to trade with over time.
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+1.

Though newbies hardly start out with "automated trading" - it usually takes years to get to this level.
 
Quote from GekkoToBe:

Define "consistently".

Trading, on any time-frame, isn't a "consistent" way to make money full stop.

The top traders make way way way more money than the top Hollywood actors or popstars.

How much did Steve Cohen make last year versus Lady Gaga ($62mil)?

Lol Cohen probably made like 20x that.

How much did James Simons make last year versus Beyonce ($87mil)?

From memory Simons made $2.5billion in 2009 which is more than 28x Beyonce.

Johnny Depp. He's set to make $50mil in 2010.
There are probably more than a hundred traders that will make more than that this year.

Oh but these guys are hedge fund managers, not traders, you'll say. Yeh well that's what the best traders do these days. They run funds.

And the short-term guys do it best.
I particularly picked SAC and Renaissance as examples because these guys generally have short holding times.

As for "nobody knows", of course I don't know Cohen or Simons personally. But I don't personally know Beyonce or Johnny Depp either.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni4251896/
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those arent daytraders. daytrading is a losers gamne. even the paper states so, even though I question its methods. They assume alot and the period which they measure is only 2 months, where the market is fully trending, down!. They dont even have information on trades that arent daytrades (bagholders) I bet the profits wont be that big. we all know what happened in march 2009...
 
Quote from Ciatronic:

Maybe I will also start a career in acting, because I'm very skilled, indeed, if I became a profitable trader, then, becoming an actor it will be piece of cake, isn't?
Really, I'm very proud of me. :-)

regards.
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Probe it by posting real time trades.

Quote from logic_man:

How are people making 750 trades/day profiting from others trading?
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They churn other people accounts.

You say it's your account?
Prove it by posting even a few REAL TIME TRADES.
You can't right?

Quote from guy990opl:

...and you are so focused on your distorted reality...you see the broker makes a small % of that money, but it does it with an uncanny CONSISTENCY the daytrader does not.

Daytrading is a pipedream

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194342
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It is not a small sum,
It's at least 25% of the daytrader investment capital.

Quote from logic_man:

Well, I guess if there is a thread called "Daytrading is a pipedream" that must mean it's true.

Seriously?

I provide a link to an academic study showing that over half of the traders studied during a window in time were profitable and you link a thread you started calling daytrading a "pipedream". I guess in your world those two statements are equivalent, but in reality they are not. Is the study the end-all be-all argument? No, but it's a datapoint that undercuts the whole premise of this thread and it isn't based on some anecdotal evidence, but hard data.

The paper even provides a reason for WHY those traders made money, which is that they took it from losing traders. As far as brokers go, yes, they make money at a more steady pace than traders, but so? Every industry has its low-margin middlemen/distributors who make a slow and steady profit from transaction volumes rather than high value-add. UPS makes money whether they deliver a 1-lb package filled with some plastic junk from China or if they deliver a diamond ring of the same size. If being a broker or middleman is so attractive to you, become one. No one is stopping you. Clearly, you think you've got it all figured out. But, I think you will find that it is a cut-throat business where pricing pressures never stop bearing down on your margins and not the money-printing business model you imagine it to be.

The funny thing is, I'm not even a day-trader (I am just fine holding positions overnight). I just think dogmatic conclusions made on the basis of bad data don't help anyone.
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All money lost by traders goes to reduce the BID-ASK SPREAD, not to winning traders.

There has never been a single documented case of a profitable daytrader.

Quote from Fireplace:

ROTFLMAO....you are using the concept of 'common sense' as your ENTIRE argument against daytrading! LOL some more.

:p

I've already mentioned this before and David a couple pages back also answered this. Some of us have been DAYTRADING successfully full time for over a decade. Some make it, some find consistent ways of extracting profits from market gyrations daily....where is 'Cheese' when you need him?

:)
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A lie!
Actually you're just a broker shill.

Prove your profitability by posting some real time trades.
You can't, right?

Quote from Fireplace:

No, you're DEAD WRONG. Garcia is NOT saying he never met one, he is saying that he knows for a fact that none exist or ever did. Read his posts, don't just guess what his message is.

Yes I know several other traders personally who have been daytrading for years and do it full time. I have also know many more who are no longer in the biz. Of COURSE it's a field where most fail, such as almost all other fields where the rewards for success are very high. That's the only way it can be.
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OK, so prove me wrong by posting real time trades.
You can't, right?

Quote from ProfLogic:

Yes we do . . . we made money just like every month.
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Yet again, prove your profitability posting some real time trades.
 
Quote from crgarcia:

Yet again, prove your profitability posting some real time trades.
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Hey everyone Crispy Raison Garcia is off work.
Workin that fryer has to be a real bitch huh?
 
Quote from crgarcia:

Probe it by posting real time trades.


They churn other people accounts.

You say it's your account?
Prove it by posting even a few REAL TIME TRADES.
You can't right?


It is not a small sum,
It's at least 25% of the daytrader investment capital.


All money lost by traders goes to reduce the BID-ASK SPREAD, not to winning traders.
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OK, I don't even know how someone would go about churning someone else's account. Wouldn't you have to log in as that person and make trades without them knowing? I was talking about people who willingly make over 750 trades per day, with who knows who is on the other side of that trade. It could be 750 different individuals, each of whom is making one trade. So, your claim is odd, to say the least.

You got any proof of your claim about the reduction in the bid-ask spread?

If commissions are 25% of your capital, I think I've identified at least one of your problems. You can't day trade on a shoestring budget for very long.
 
Quote from ProfLogic:

Hey everyone Crispy Raison Garcia is off work.
Workin that fryer has to be a real bitch huh?
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Stop pretending to insult me and prove your "profitability" by posting real time trades.
 
Quote from logic_man:

OK, I don't even know how someone would go about churning someone else's account. Wouldn't you have to log in as that person and make trades without them knowing? I was talking about people who willingly make over 750 trades per day, with who knows who is on the other side of that trade. It could be 750 different individuals, each of whom is making one trade. So, your claim is odd, to say the least.

You got any proof of your claim about the reduction in the bid-ask spread?

If commissions are 25% of your capital, I think I've identified at least one of your problems. You can't day trade on a shoestring budget for very long.
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If it's your account then you can post some real time trades.
Don't dodge or excuse, just post real time trades.
 
garcia..please..i've already tried that...but according to you-my screen shoots are altered\fake..you have to understand one little thing-it doesn't not make any sense to post anything after that.you are going to say exactly same thing to anybody, who post any proof.
post your proof instead..i don't need your fucking real time calls once in five years...post the proof of your BIG profits,you mentioned in so many useless threads..
 
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