You are more likely to become a top Hollywood actor or popstar than profitable trader

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Quote from asiaprop:

By the way, I laid out the conditions very clearly (top of page 16) how the returns are to be calculated. I dont deviate from those. Take it or leave it, those conditions are very reasonable
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I will just point out that the thread, and my bet as stated, was about your claim whether intraday trading can be "consistently successful", not whether it can make 20% per annum compound. 12% compound is still a consistently successful return, for example, and 18% would be considered a great long-term track record. You also ignore the risk element - returns should be risk-adjusted, not absolute. A daytrader who made 15% per annum with infrequent small drawdowns has a better record than someone who made 20% per annum but had frequent or large drawdowns. And if a daytrader has several million, making 150k a year is still consistently successful daytrading, even if it is below 10% per annum in his later years once he's built up some alternative savings & capital. The typical daytrader might only keep 50-250k in his account, and won't use anywhere near his full capital. So % return on net worth is not really a good measure, since that capital can be used elsewhere, or for longer-term trades.

That's why I think outright $$$ earnings is a better measure, and you yourself accepted that earlier in the thread. If someone can make 6 figures most years from daytrading, they are consistent and they are successful by any reasonable measure.
 
Quote from schizo:

Well, if you hide your real identity, how can you possibly expect to receive the $75,000? For me, this is free money and I plan to get it out of him one way or another.
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My privacy and financial data/security is worth more to me than $75k (substantially more in fact, I hate the idea of any kind of publicity), and I can still establish performance by having a reputable professional firm verify my results, along with one of his representatives if necessary.

However, if he's not willing to accept that condition, I won't criticize him for it. Anyway, if you are willing to go ahead and disclose your info, good luck - it will settle the principle behind the bet anyway.
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

My privacy and financial data/security is worth more to me than $75k (substantially more in fact, I hate the idea of any kind of publicity), and I can still establish performance by having a reputable professional firm verify my results, along with one of this representatives if necessary.
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Sure, $75k ain't something I would write home about. But, c'mon, what can he possibly do with your good name? Sell it to the spammers? What's there to worry about? It's not like you're giving out your SSN. Even if it gets leaked to the public, so what? Who's to care? Frankly, I don't think anyone would care. I know I wouldn't.

So why don't ya just join me. Perhaps we can hook up and take our families to Asia for a 5-day hiatus at Asiaprop's expense, not to mention the $75,000 free dough that awaits us.
 
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:

My privacy and financial data/security is worth more to me than $75k (substantially more in fact, I hate the idea of any kind of publicity), and I can still establish performance by having a reputable professional firm verify my results, along with one of his representatives if necessary.

However, if he's not willing to accept that condition, I won't criticize him for it. Anyway, if you are willing to go ahead and disclose your info, good luck - it will settle the principle behind the bet anyway.
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May I suggest adding a non-disclosure clause to the contract with a substantial penalty for violation thereof?
 
Quote from TrueProp:

Crgarcia must not be a real person. I'm starting to think he really was created by ET and used to stir up hits with aimless threads. ET you're slipping! Crgarcia usually makes comments from time to time in his own thread. He doesn't typically abandon threads --- not threads this lively anyway.
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This thread has turned into some great entertainment. I will just keep tuning in. :p

crgarcia... from what I observed he often abandons his thread. Me think... it seems as if he can't come unless he starts a mindless thread every couple of months bashing day trading, or trading in general, with his one sentence opening statement and a provocative title. And then he disappears.


And the guy who hijacked over this thread... he used to have my respect but now the shred of respect is completely gone.

Why there seems to be so much hatred towards day traders? Why saying we are here to paint pipe dreams for many wannabes, etc.? If anybody say day trading is easy, that's definitely naive. If anybody say it's "impossible" with absolute conviction, I think that is foolish. Why there always seem to be these "my method (position trading, swing trading, option trading, you name it) beats your method (day trading) hand down". It's all back to "my dick is bigger than your dick" contest thing.

Day trade is a style of choice. As much as some chooses to scan, scan, scan for movers to play everyday while some chooses to trading only 1 stock or just index futures, as some trades options, as some buys and holds. I don't believe there are inherant success factors of position trading over swing trading or day trading or option trading. They are tools. Every tool has advantages and short-comings. The mastery of using any tool is the skillmenship of the master. A dull chopstick can be as lethal as a sharp sword when it is in the hand of a kung-fu master. Know who you are, what you have, what you like... then pick the best approach for yourself.

To me day trading is my choice: ever since about 4 to 5 years ago when I held a short position on RMBS... only 500 shares at something like $26... and it gapped up $10 on me in pre market the very next day. I lost $5000 without even a chance to say 'ouch". I vowed to eliminate my overnight holding risks. I have not held a position overnight since, even with my 401K account. Maybe I will pick up swing trading again. Maybe I will invest some day. I don't want to limit my options. (And why limit yourself?)

I have been profitable for the past 4 years. Comfortably profitable. Couldn't dream of better things when I worked a technology job for over 20 years. I know I don't qualify for this silly challenge, because it was only FOUR years. Nor I care to. Because I don't believe that first class ticket or USD15,000 per day "inconvenience" compensation would materialize. But keep up the food fight! LOL

Hey new traders: I am not promoting the gloriousness of day trading, especially with small account size. It's hard work! Most people fail. But some made it. It can be you. It may be not.

It is a big world out there. There are millions of ways to trade. Don't be so unshakably sure that there is NO WAY that "such and such" method can make money... consistently... or you will blow up one day. Blow up one day I may. But meanwhile let me enjoy the fruits of my hardwork for the time being.
 
Quote from Retief:

May I suggest adding a non-disclosure clause to the contract with a substantial penalty for violation thereof?
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Don't worry. That will be taken care of once I receive the pertinent information from Asiaprop, which I'll turn over to my lawyer for housekeeping. But, damn, it's been more than a few hours since I made the request and I haven't heard back from the guy.

I truly hope he doesn't back out on me now. I wonder if it's even possible for him to renege on the promise he publicly pledged. Can I use that as an evidence against him in court if he were to break the promise?
 
Quote from schizo:

Don't worry. That will be taken care of once I receive the pertinent information from Asiaprop, which I'll turn over to my lawyer for housekeeping. But, damn, it's been more than a few hours since I made the request and I haven't heard back from the guy.

I truly hope he doesn't back out on me now. I wonder if it's even possible for him to renege on the promise he publicly pledged. Can I use that as an evidence against him in court if he were to break the promise?
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There would be a lot of problems. The main issue is that all of the material terms to the contract have not been agreed upon so the promise would most likely be construed as an invitation to enter into negotiations rather than as an actual pledge or contract. The other issue is that I'm not sure which court would have jurisdiction or what law would apply as you and asiaprop are probably in different countries. Better have a choice of law clause in the contract as well.
 
sorry, I gotta run but I will reply to you gentlemen tonight when I get back. Ghost, lol, no contact info no deal, so simple. You seem to be having a lot of issues....each time you disagree with the conditions of the bet, chickening out? Please understand at such amount is plenty opportunities for you cheat, such as sending someone else's statements. I need your identity, nothing else makes sense. I think that is a very basic requirement for this bet to go forward and nothing whatsoever unreasonable to ask for.
 
lol, ita a very simple bet. We will detail all the details of the bet to the escrow company, they have lawyers and will be happy to offer business as they take a cut. Let's not make this more complicated than it really is. What I need, however, is a verification that one and only one person is behind the statements and that this person is most likely the person who posted. This can only be established through an ID and matching names on the statements and ID. I got the ID of schizo and any bet that will ensue will only be made out to the name schizo gave me initially. Ghost, at least give me your name so we can lock in the person that participates in the bet. Otherwise forget it. Very simple requirements.

Quote from Retief:

There would be a lot of problems. The main issue is that all of the material terms to the contract have not been agreed upon so the promise would most likely be construed as an invitation to enter into negotiations rather than as an actual pledge or contract. The other issue is that I'm not sure which court would have jurisdiction or what law would apply as you and asiaprop are probably in different countries. Better have a choice of law clause in the contract as well.
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