WTS not paying

Srkisrle said:
Me and my group actually closed, or wanted to close our accounts when they wanted to change their rates to a pretty uncompetitive price. Irony... Should have seen this coming. My guess for WTS group. They made bad investments, and that along with Simon Libratti's high life style on our money, the result is what it is.
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You bring up an interesting point. The firm's owner simply cannot live a "high life style" on your money, since that would constitute fraud. Losing money to the market through "making bad investments" is quite different than embezzlement.

Class A members (owners) need reserves to run the business and have management authority of the company. Class B members are the groups. If I'm not mistaken, WTS had three classes of members, whereby Class C are the traders. If you ran a group, then you're responsible for the Class C members in your group. When you closed the group, and your traders' funds were still intact, then there is no excuse for WTS to refuse the return of capital.

Request the latest focus report (or whatever it's called in Canada) from the Montreal provincial regulators, and it will provide some guidance to the allocation of capital.
 
ScalperJoe said:
You bring up an interesting point. The firm's owner simply cannot live a "high life style" on your money, since that would constitute fraud. Losing money to the market through "making bad investments" is quite different than embezzlement.

Class A members (owners) need reserves to run the business and have management authority of the company. Class B members are the groups. If I'm not mistaken, WTS had three classes of members, whereby Class C are the traders. If you ran a group, then you're responsible for the Class C members in your group. When you closed the group, and your traders' funds were still intact, then there is no excuse for WTS to refuse the return of capital.

Request the latest focus report (or whatever it's called in Canada) from the Montreal provincial regulators, and it will provide some guidance to the allocation of capital.
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Yes, you are correct. My company was Class B member, and the traders are Class C. Unfortunately, I don't have too much knowledge on the regulations (I always thought it was SOMEHOW regulated, now I have to dig in and find out a lot of things I should have known earlier), and you are helping me out with great insight. You are also bringing up an interesting point. The firm's owner cannot LEGALLY live a "high life style" on our money, but so couldn't Madoff Lol. The problem is, in the hypothetical case that I sue (and win the case) WTS, or company's owners for embezzlement, they would either have to a) pay b) declare bankruptcy. If they declare bankruptcy, they would have to prove it was "in good faith" and because of bad investments, and not because of embezzlement. Now, the BIGGEST problem is where do I, or anyone else in a similar situation, sue them. As far as the money goes, I have given up on it, but I WILL NEVER GIVE UP going after these guys, in any legal possible way. Do you, or anyone else, know the canadian regulators address, phone, webpage? I will highly appreciate this info. Also, does anyone know how did the people losing money from Title trading sue, if they sued at all? Thank you so much, and everyone else who helps me out with this.
 
Srkisrle said:
...I WILL NEVER GIVE UP going after these guys, in any legal possible way. Do you, or anyone else, know the canadian regulators address, phone, webpage?
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It's good that you're at least trying to collect your money. I think one of the best courses of remedy is to keep in contact with the owners (as I suggested earlier). It won't hurt to file a claim with the Canadian regulators, however don't expect them to do anything other than file the paperwork. When a group of us filed complaints with the SEC and NY Attorney General to seek assistance with recovering our remaining deposits with a former prop firm, the regulators did not pursue any enforcement action. Eventually one of the owners paid a handful of traders directly, but only to those who were persistent, and we received our deposits back.

I did a quick search, and nothing comes up under "World Trade Securities" on either link, which means they probably weren't even registered in Canada. However, this could provide an angle for reimbursement, because they used the exemption in the Caymans, and had to file a statement that they WERE registered elsewhere. Obviously, the Caymans Monetary Authority never cross checked. But Google is quite good at finding stuff. :)

http://www.securities-administrators.ca/aboutcsa.aspx?id=45

http://www.lautorite.qc.ca/en/about-amf-conso.html

https://www.lautorite.qc.ca/files/pdf/formulaires-conso/form-plainte-en.pdf
 
Another route you can take is small claims, however it's capped at $15k, and you'll either have to show up for the hearing or hire a lawyer, which may be cost prohibitive. I know of a trader who did this with the other prop firm, AND he won the judgement. However, winning a judgement is one thing, but collecting on it is another.

It's just another option you may want to consider. If your operating agreement says any disputes need to be settled in Montreal, then that's most likely the proper venue (or some type of civil court, which is way more expensive than small claims).

In the end, Karma's a bitch. Any wrongful action eventually has its consequences. Just my 2 cents.

http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/generale/creance-a.htm#sued
 
Thanks a lot! I contacted FINRA, and they also told me to file a complaint with both, Cayman and Canada authorities. I just contacted via mail the Canadian authorities to see if they can at least do something.
 
Srkisrle said:
Thanks a lot! I contacted FINRA, and they also told me to file a complaint with both, Cayman and Canada authorities. I just contacted via mail the Canadian authorities to see if they can at least do something.
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The Canadian complaint form is very simple, and similar to what we filed with the NY Attorney General in our case. As I wrote earlier, don't have expectations of the Canadian regulators to do "something" other than accept the filing.

Even if WTS wasn't registered, they use a clearing broker (where the capital is held). The clearing broker is most likely registered (hopefully it's in Canada and not somewhere offshore). Find out who they clear their trades through, and reference it with your complaint.
 
I saw on another forum someone figured SFG Trading was one and the same company as WTS since they have similar addresses and appear located very closely in Montreal - although someone mentioned they could not find the physical address for SFG there. I have started trading with SFG but I am pretty sketched out by it. They won't answer the phone with the company name, but only answer as "trading." Furthermore they appear uncomfortable talking about their physical location - no one will say where they are - although the area code says its actually a New York #. The trading platform data is low quality - and lags if you use more than a few charts, and they will not supply level 2 data - even if you want to pay more for it. After you put in your application they say their risk management team has assessed your application and determined you are a qualified candidate. However i tried a fake application with them and gave obviously bad answers, yet the the same reply came back that risk management has determined you are a qualified candidate. Anyhow - if it is one and the same company with WTS - I was wondering what would happen if I could pass their trial phase even working with the crappy conditions they put on things - could I actually get paid? I am even more sketched out now hearing about your experience with WTS.
 
WonderBoy81 said:
Furthermore they appear uncomfortable talking about their physical location - no one will say where they are - although the area code says its actually a New York #.
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Their site says the phone number is in the 514 area code, which is not in New York.

According to Google:

"The 514 area code belongs to the Quebec (QC) province of Canada and some of the locations covered are Dorval, Montreal and more"

http://www.cnac.ca/area_code_maps/canadian_area_codes.htm

The complaint posted against WTS is regarding the failure to return capital. I'm not sure if the company you're referencing is the same company or not. If you trade with them and they don't pay you, then the only loss is the time (opportunity cost of doing something else instead), since you're not placing any capital up front. Obviously one may want to refrain from trading with a company they aren't comfortable with.
 
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ScalperJoe said:
Their site says the phone number is in the 514 area code, which is not in New York.

According to Google:

"The 514 area code belongs to the Quebec (QC) province of Canada and some of the locations covered are Dorval, Montreal and more"

http://www.cnac.ca/area_code_maps/canadian_area_codes.htm

The complaint posted against WTS is regarding the failure to return capital. I'm not sure if the company you're referencing is the same company or not. If you trade with them and they don't pay you, then the only loss is the time (opportunity cost of doing something else instead), since you're not placing any capital up front. Obviously one may want to refrain from trading with a company they aren't comfortable with.
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You are right about the phone # - my mistake.
 
For everyone talking about this, if you're either going to entrust tens of thousands of dollars or have lost tens of thousands of dollars to these types, why not get on a plane, maybe with a large imposing friend if you've lost money, and park yourself in their office. You can get from nearly anywhere on earth to anywhere else for less than a thousand bucks, and this type of scammer doesn't stand up well to in-person confrontation.
If you have put up money yet, for this or any other potential scam, just arrange to meet with the principles in person at their office, even if you never intend to actually show up. If they avoid the meeting, 100% it's a scam. Note that if they agree to meet it doesn't make them honest, but you can weed out a bunch with this simple hack.
 
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