WTS - JC Trading

Quote from SgtSlottter:


I was surprised Scalper Joe suggested 'mysterious' Canadian assets would make WTS stronger.
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The domestic arm of WTS cannot allow non-U.S. traders (as per CBSX), but the Canadian arm can, so it is reasonable to assume that the balance sheet of the Canadian arm is stronger, given their access to traders from international markets.

In my opinion, there is nothing "mysterious" about that statement.
 
so is nevis also a "branch" of WTS which JC uses for non-us traders? i dont understand why people are all saying JC is a highly reputable firm, it is only an unregistered branch within a pyramid scheme and it very often holds itself out as a standalone independent firm without disclosing its status..
 
People say JC is reputable because they have been around for 6 years and have a reputation for being an honest firm. I have traded with them since 2008 and couldn't be happier. What you get with JC that you don't get with other firms is their customer service. They always answer the phone on the first ring and answer instant messages immediately. There is no pyramid scheme associated in doing business with them.

In terms of Nevis, I have Canadian friends that I recommended to them a few years back and still trade there. They are not a branch of WTS. From these threads:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...027&perpage=6&highlight=nevis jc&pagenumber=1

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...200985&perpage=6&highlight=nevis&pagenumber=2

"Thank you for your interest in Nevis Trading. This offshore fund was created for the international non-US, active trader. We offer both "per ticket" and "per share" clearing using the Laser platform. Besides the US equity markets we are now able to offer trading on The Toronto Stock Exchange as well.

To help facilitate the marketing, administration, and risk management functions, we have hired JC Trading Group to work as consultants. We have worked with JC Trading for two years and are honored to be associated with a firm with such a fine reputation.

Please visit our website, www.nevistrading.com to learn more about us. You can call/IM on Skype at "nevistrading". Also, for your convenience, we have a Canadian phone number, 778-785-1570.

Thank You."



















Quote from blackstormcap:

so is nevis also a "branch" of WTS which JC uses for non-us traders? i dont understand why people are all saying JC is a highly reputable firm, it is only an unregistered branch within a pyramid scheme and it very often holds itself out as a standalone independent firm without disclosing its status..
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ok, then how can an unregistered firm like Nevis offer trading services? it should be under another branch or directly under another broker? either way, it is not an independent firm right as it is not a b/d per se.
 
This is a good question. I really don't understand the non-US stuff but it seems like Canada is cracking down (see Swift, Orbixa, Biremis etc) and it seems like the US is cracking down on LLCs running offshore trading (see Genesis closing its brokerage, only a technology company now and other changes going on).

Very confused on how JC trading U-4s can have them as 'consulting' for an international unregistered broker dealer.

How do they get paid? I don't know this, but I suspect on transactions, which makes them brokers, which makes them not compliant let alone not legal.

On the other hand, maybe they found a way to do it legally. Lots of question marks.

Nevis remains a total mystery on a tiny island to me, as does JC.


Quote from blackstormcap:

ok, then how can an unregistered firm like Nevis offer trading services? it should be under another branch or directly under another broker? either way, it is not an independent firm right as it is not a b/d per se.
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Now I'm confused if we are just crossing posts on this - maybe we already covered it but I'll reiterate my point. And I apologize, I think we are on the same page with my 'do some hardcore due diligence' posts.

WTS US and WTS overseas are not the same entity. In the US legal system, they won't be looked at as the same (barring fraud). They don't even share a parent owner (their financials I think said a Maurice Bens.. and Simon something are the Class A owners or something along those lines - from memory - maybe I am wrong on that).

So any international operations or claims by WTS should matter none for those in the US considering it or its fronts. In fact, it should bring up more red flags that these guys pitch their huge Canadian bankroll and line of credits etc. etc. etc. But it means nothing so it is just a sales pitch (which I think many see right through, thus the hidden WTS sub-groups).


Folks - we are still at with WTS the same place. Crappy balance sheet, traders who don't put up PNL (usually means a firm won't last when they stop being able to bring in new guys to chew on - thus the apparently mushrooming sub-operations to lure in newbies), odd compliance (this mix of JC and Cap Traders Group having US and international arms) and at least 4 front websites (one with the guy's apt address) who don't even admit being part of WTS.

AND - WE HAVE NO ANSWER ON HOW MUCH CLASS A MONEY VS CLASS B MONEY IS IN THEIR US BROKER DEALER leaving this a very dangerous place to have money because not only have all the above questions and non-traditional set up and strangely operating subgroups who do some of the bidding for them (like Cap traders grp, JC Trading, LES Trading, Principle Trading group or something like that, all trading through it.)

Get more answers people - hard ones - in writing before you take the leap.



Quote from ScalperJoe:

The domestic arm of WTS cannot allow non-U.S. traders (as per CBSX), but the Canadian arm can, so it is reasonable to assume that the balance sheet of the Canadian arm is stronger, given their access to traders from international markets.

In my opinion, there is nothing "mysterious" about that statement.
More...
 
i have nothing against JC, i talked with them before, nice folks, but it is a fact that it is not a registered broker/dealer and it gotta be transparent about how it can take me on as a trading client. the guy avoided my questions, which makes me wonder how can i trust my personal capital in a firm that is not open to discussing its corporate structure and operation status. maybe they offer very good service indeed, but i need to know that its service/operation is indeed within compliance/legality so that i can know my capital is protected and worry about trading not my principal.
 
Very good discussions here, especially with the prior mishaps of some other prop firms that went under.

I believe JC used to do business with Ocean View Capital, whereby JC would use Ocean View as their broker dealer. Perhaps hedgefund07 can explain why JC switched from Ocean View to WTS (both are CBSX). If JC is simply acting as a customer service or consultants as mentioned by hedgefund07, and if they're registered with the prop and have U-4's then it doesn't seem suspicious or convuluted to have it set up as a referral firm (for the U.S. firms which are CBSX, but similar to what SgtSlotter posted, not sure how they can get paid from an offshore firm).

However, since capital at a CBSX prop firm is not SIPC insured and the risk is shared collectively by the traders, it only makes sense to get the specifics if there is any level of concern.
 
Quote from SgtSlottter:

This is a good question. I really don't understand the non-US stuff but it seems like Canada is cracking down (see Swift, Orbixa, Biremis etc) and it seems like the US is cracking down on LLCs running offshore trading (see Genesis closing its brokerage, only a technology company now and other changes going on).

Very confused on how JC trading U-4s can have them as 'consulting' for an international unregistered broker dealer.

How do they get paid? I don't know this, but I suspect on transactions, which makes them brokers, which makes them not compliant let alone not legal.

On the other hand, maybe they found a way to do it legally. Lots of question marks.

Nevis remains a total mystery on a tiny island to me, as does JC.
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SgtSlotter,

I am going to agree with another poster that came to the conclusion that you have some alterior motive against WTS.

1. Genesis voluntarily closed down their clearing operations.

2. It has already been stated that the principals of JC are licensed with WTS and run branches for them...why is it a mystery how they get paid?

3. What is a "JC U4"? Companies don't have U4's...people do.

4. Nevis and JC shouldn't really be mysteries. They are real companies that you can call and talk to anytime. They have been sponsors on elitetrader for 5 years with an impeccable reputation....You on the other hand have been a member here for 3 weeks and have all 45 posts bashing WTS and JC. Now who really is the mystery???
 
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