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It's more of success in Capitalism...
The Myth of Nordic Socialism

By
Rainer Zitelmann
April 3, 2019 9:00 am ET

Polls tell us that 20-somethings today feel better about socialism then they do about capitalism. Among those reclaiming the term are supporters of Jeremy Corbyn in the U.K. and Bernie Sanders in the U.S. To them, socialism doesn’t mean a state-controlled system like the one we saw in the old Soviet Union, but the dream of a “democratic socialism” based on the Nordic model. But their dream is based on a big misunderstanding.

Although there are areas—especially in taxes and labor market regulation—where socialist elements still exist in the Nordics, the region is by no means socialist today. In fact, according to the Heritage Foundation’s index of economic freedom, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, and Denmark rank among the 30 most capitalist countries in the world.


The image of the Nordic countries as strongholds of socialism is outdated, harking back to the 1970s and 1980s. To see how things have changed, let’s take a closer look at one: Sweden.

In the late 1960s, Sweden’s government spending was in the same ballpark as other OECD states. This changed starting in the late 1960s. Between 1965 and 1975, the number of civil servants grew from 700,000 to 1.2 million, alongside increasing government intervention in economic affairs and the creation of a number of new regulatory authorities. Between 1970 and 1984, the public sector absorbed the entire growth of the Swedish workforce, with the largest number of new jobs created in social services.


In 1960, for every 100 “market-financed” Swedes (i.e. those who derived their income predominantly from private enterprise), there were 38 who were “tax-financed” (i.e. dependent on the public sector for their income, whether as civil servants or as recipients of payments from the state). Thirty years later, that number had risen to 151—in other words, there were significantly more people living off of the state than paying into the system. This reflects Sweden’s move away from a capitalist free-market economy to a socialist model.

This damaged the Swedish economy and resulted in prominent entrepreneurs leaving the country in frustration. IKEA founder Ingvar Kamprad, for example, moved to Denmark in 1974 and later to Switzerland. The economic situation in Sweden deteriorated as a direct result of extreme labor market regulation and the constant expansion of the role of the state, which led to massive dissatisfaction among the population.

Pushback against these socialist ideas gathered momentum, and by the 1990s there was a comprehensive counter-movement that—without fundamentally questioning the Swedish model of high taxes and comprehensive welfare benefits—nevertheless eliminated many of its excesses. A major tax reform in 1990/91 slashed corporate taxes from 57% to 30%. Income from shares was exempted from taxation, while capital gains from shares were taxed at only 12.5%.

The top marginal income-tax rate was set at around 50%, a reduction by 24 to 27 percentage points for the majority of the workforce. The proportion of earners taxed at a marginal rate of over 50% dropped from over half to only 17% paying income tax to the central government.


The reforms continued over the following years: in 2004, the estate tax of up to 30% was scrapped. Today, there is no estate tax in Sweden. The abolition of the wealth tax, which had already been cut, came into effect retroactively as of 1 January 2007. The corporate tax rate continued to decline, getting cut from 30% to 26.3% in 2009 and to 22% in 2013. Property tax rates were also cut substantially.

Between 1993 and 2000, social spending dropped from 22.2% to 16.9% of GDP, economic subsidies from 8.7% to 1.8% and public-sector payroll costs from 18.2% to 15.6%.

These changes have resulted in a drastic decline in equality. Sweden’s Gini coefficient, which measures income distribution, grew by around 30% between the mid-1980s and the late 2000s. Only New Zealand recorded a similar growth in inequality during the same period.

Although contemporary Sweden remains a traditional welfare state in some respects (e.g. it has comparatively high tax rates), successive governments since the early 1990s have consistently chosen more freedom over more equality, more market over more state. Following the obvious failure of the socialist experiment, the balance between capitalism and socialism has shifted toward capitalism.


The conclusion: Why should countries like the United Kingdom or the U.S. make the same mistake as the Swedes did in the 1970s? Sweden’s “democratic socialism” with high taxes, redistribution and high state regulation has failed, and the young people who are today enthusiastic about the ideas of Bernie Sanders should draw lessons from the experiences of Sweden and other Nordic countries.

Dr. Rainer Zitelmann, historian and sociologist, is the author of the recently published book The Power of Capitalism.




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Well, this gives a different view. It mentioned New Zealand and I think this German Dr. Zitelmann fellow might be a bit.. well he has a LOT of focus on the Nazis and such which is fine but is he a fringe guy?

That said, the countries Americans call simply "socialist" are really just running strong social programs and don't have the US hangup about the S word.

This however is very good, presenter has superb dry delivery.

 
Well, this gives a different view. It mentioned New Zealand and I think this German Dr. Zitelmann fellow might be a bit.. well he has a LOT of focus on the Nazis and such which is fine but is he a fringe guy?

That said, the countries Americans call simply "socialist" are really just running strong social programs and don't have the US hangup about the S word.

This however is very good, presenter has superb dry delivery.

I guess you were not around when this was posted. So here it is for your enlighment.

**********************

I posted this earlier...

"The real key to Scandinavia’s unique successes isn’t socialism, it’s culture. Social trust and cohesion, a broad egalitarian ethic, a strong emphasis on work and responsibility, commitment to the rule of law — these are healthy attributes of a Nordic culture that was ingrained over centuries. In the region’s small and homogeneous countries (overwhelmingly white, Protestant, and native-born), those norms took deep root. The good outcomes and high living standards they produced antedated the socialist nostrums of the 1970s. Scandinavia’s quality of life didn’t spring from leftist policies. It survived them.

Sanandaji makes the acute observation that when Scandinavian emigrants left for the United States, those cultural attributes went with them and produced the same good effects. Scandinavian-Americans have higher incomes and lower poverty rates than the US average. Indeed, Danish-Americans economically outperform Danes still living in Denmark, as do Swedish-Americans compared with Swedes and Finnish-Americans compared with Finns. Scandinavian culture has been a blessing for native Scandinavians — and even more of one for their cousins across the ocean.

No, Scandinavia doesn’t “violate the laws of the economic universe.” It confirms them. With free markets and healthy values, almost any society will thrive. Socialism only makes things worse."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...list-utopia/lUk9N7dZotJRbvn8PosoIN/story.html
 
I guess you were not around when this was posted. So here it is for your enlighment.

**********************

I posted this earlier...

"The real key to Scandinavia’s unique successes isn’t socialism, it’s culture. Social trust and cohesion, a broad egalitarian ethic, a strong emphasis on work and responsibility, commitment to the rule of law — these are healthy attributes of a Nordic culture that was ingrained over centuries. In the region’s small and homogeneous countries (overwhelmingly white, Protestant, and native-born), those norms took deep root. The good outcomes and high living standards they produced antedated the socialist nostrums of the 1970s. Scandinavia’s quality of life didn’t spring from leftist policies. It survived them.

Sanandaji makes the acute observation that when Scandinavian emigrants left for the United States, those cultural attributes went with them and produced the same good effects. Scandinavian-Americans have higher incomes and lower poverty rates than the US average. Indeed, Danish-Americans economically outperform Danes still living in Denmark, as do Swedish-Americans compared with Swedes and Finnish-Americans compared with Finns. Scandinavian culture has been a blessing for native Scandinavians — and even more of one for their cousins across the ocean.

No, Scandinavia doesn’t “violate the laws of the economic universe.” It confirms them. With free markets and healthy values, almost any society will thrive. Socialism only makes things worse."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...list-utopia/lUk9N7dZotJRbvn8PosoIN/story.html

Well nobody is arguing that you don't need a cultural work ethic. Nothing works without that however you can safely assume the top in wealth per capita, excluding the artificially rich tax havens and say really only oil economies have a work ethic.

Have you watched that short talk I posted? I don't watch too many myself but that one is I believe really set to change some old ideas.
 
Well nobody is arguing that you don't need a cultural work ethic. Nothing works without that however you can safely assume the top in wealth per capita, excluding the artificially rich tax havens and say really only oil economies have a work ethic.

Have you watched that short talk I posted? I don't watch too many myself but that one is I believe really set to change some old ideas.
I did.
 
These changes have resulted in a drastic decline in equality. Sweden’s Gini coefficient, which measures income distribution, grew by around 30% between the mid-1980s and the late 2000s.

Perhaps, but I would argue that a more likely factor was the massive increase in third world immigration.
 
"The real key to Scandinavia’s unique successes isn’t socialism, it’s culture. Social trust and cohesion, a broad egalitarian ethic, a strong emphasis on work and responsibility, commitment to the rule of law — these are healthy attributes of a Nordic culture that was ingrained over centuries.

So the obvious thing to do was bring in millions of low skill third world immigrants who share none of those values and who instead bring their own culture of violence, corruption and religious bigotry.
 
To be quite honest having been looking for where OptionPro007 posted his piece before (assuming he had in the past) to see what if anything got through to him, I saw he ran a business under the name so he is not really hiding his identity then but I won't reveal it.

This is what an education means, going in prepared. And education matters a lot, not just them Calvinist and Lutheran whatnot work ethics.

Going by the address and such I can using not Google (a much better engine) he looks exactly like his profile pic, Swedish AND he is not wealthy enough to know anything about what makes wealth. Though I'll grant some sense of humour on the profile picture.

So screw this talking to a loser, I'm off for my dinner.
 
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To be quite honest having been looking for where OptionPro007 posted his piece before (assuming he had in the past) to see what if anything got through to him, I saw he ran a business under the name so he is not really hiding his identity then but I won't reveal it.

This is what an education means, going in prepared. And education matters a lot, not just them Calvinist and Lutheran whatnot work ethics.

Going by the address and such I can using not Google (a much better engine) he looks exactly like his profile pic, Swedish AND he is not wealthy enough to know anything about what makes wealth. Though I'll grant some sense of humour on the profile picture.

So screw this talking to a loser, I'm off for my dinner.

Haha! I have never posted personal identifying information on this website. If I did, please send me a PM with it and I will exit this forum.

You were wrong and the article I posted noted that. Just accept it.
 
I guess you were not around when this was posted. So here it is for your enlighment.

**********************

I posted this earlier...

"The real key to Scandinavia’s unique successes isn’t socialism, it’s culture. Social trust and cohesion, a broad egalitarian ethic, a strong emphasis on work and responsibility, commitment to the rule of law — these are healthy attributes of a Nordic culture that was ingrained over centuries. In the region’s small and homogeneous countries (overwhelmingly white, Protestant, and native-born), those norms took deep root. The good outcomes and high living standards they produced antedated the socialist nostrums of the 1970s. Scandinavia’s quality of life didn’t spring from leftist policies. It survived them.

Sanandaji makes the acute observation that when Scandinavian emigrants left for the United States, those cultural attributes went with them and produced the same good effects. Scandinavian-Americans have higher incomes and lower poverty rates than the US average. Indeed, Danish-Americans economically outperform Danes still living in Denmark, as do Swedish-Americans compared with Swedes and Finnish-Americans compared with Finns. Scandinavian culture has been a blessing for native Scandinavians — and even more of one for their cousins across the ocean.

No, Scandinavia doesn’t “violate the laws of the economic universe.” It confirms them. With free markets and healthy values, almost any society will thrive. Socialism only makes things worse."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...list-utopia/lUk9N7dZotJRbvn8PosoIN/story.html
Yep. Those Scandinavian folks... Lutherans... they run a tight ship. That's why you never bet against these companies. All in Minnesota. Just off the top of my head...
unh
tgt
best buy
3m
general mills
Ameriprise
Us Bankcorp
Hormel
Polaris

Kinda standoffish people though lol.
 
Kinda standoffish people though lol.

It's the lutefisk that does it to them, man.

Have some compassion.

Viewers have no need to know what that is if they do not know already. If someone asks you to come by and try their lutefisk, just tell em that you have to stay home and read your deleted mail.

You can thank me later.
 
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