WTF ? Cant believe market is going up like this !!!

Quote from Nine_Ender:

You don't get it. Period.

The markets are fairly valued yet you still get hysterical every day about this. The ytd increase is around 10%. Not even a strong year but you are still hysterical.

You kept going long all year only to get whipsawed. Of course, you didn’t brag about that.

You (and other permabulls here) finally got lucky in mid-August. Call it "broken clock syndrome." Now, suddenly you, Tin Foil and the rest are self-proclaimed master technicians and economic wizards. You "called the bottom," saw it coming and see nothing but blue skies ahead. Delusions of grandeur indeed.

Please. This is "fooled by randomeness" to the Nth degree. You can't make a cogent argument about the economy to save yourself. Deal point-by-point with Hussman's article and we can talk. I seriously doubt you can make it through the first two paragraphs without getting over your head.

The only way we go into a new secular bull market (without dealing with a host of issues first) is a Zimbabwe or post-WW1 Germany scenario.
 
Strong bid in the market to lean against thanks to helicopter ben, throw a dart at a stock list, can't go wrong, as we use to say around here, <b>100%</b> upside to go :D
 
Quote from Nine_Ender:
Fact is that strong earnings are very real. Increased M&A money suggests that there is interest in companies at their current valuations.

Not so fast. On a healthy economy, M&A is a sign of bull market. What we have here, is the large corp. refuses to hire people, they are afraid of either a deflation, or jobless recovery, very slow growth w/ anemic consumer spending etc., but at the same time, they want you to buy their stock.

So instead of hiring more worker to create more output, they know there is not enough demand. Take a look at the major bellweather stocks' earning report in Q3, so many of them missed on revenue, both US based and Intl. That's a sign that there are not enough consumer buying.

So what did they do? They engage in M&A. They buy smaller co., laid off those workers, embedded that co. asset into their own bal. sheet to boost up their stock value. But that's not growth, in fact, there is no growth within.

All we have is 2 co. w/ x amt. of workers, they merge into 1, and a percentage of the x amt. of workers got laid off, thus, the "cost cutting", and stock of this new co. looks better.

This kind stunt won't last. It only boost up a stock for 2 weeks at the most. To make matter worse, every time this happens, they laid off so many thousands of US workers, it creates higher unemployment. And last time I check, higher unemployment is bad for the econ. and for the US stock market. Remember you are buying the future value of a stock.
 
From Reminscenses:


Slow as my progress seems now, I suppose I learned as fast
as I possibly could, considering that I was making money on
balance. If I had lost oftener perhaps it might have spurred me
too more continuous study. I certainly would have had more
mistakes to spot. But I am not sure of the exact value of
losing, for if I had lost more I would have lacked the money to
test out the improvements in my methods of trading.
Studying my winning plays in Fullerton's office I discovered
that although I often was 100 per cent right on the market that
is, in my diagnosis of conditions and general trend -- I was not
making as much money as my market "rightness" entitled me to.
Why wasn't I?
There was as much to learn from partial victory as from
defeat.
For instance, I had been bullish from the very start of a
bull market, and I had backed my opinion by buying stocks. An
advance followed, as I had clearly foreseen. So far, all very
well. But what else did I do? Why, I listened to the elder
statesmen and curbed my youthful impetuousness. I made up my
mind to be wise and play carefully, conservatively. Everybody
knew that the way to do that was to take profits and buy back
your stocks on reactions. And that is precisely what I did, or
rather what I tried to do; for I often took profits and waited
for a reaction that never came. And I saw my stock go kiting up
ten points more and I sitting there with my four-point profit
safe in my conservative pocket. They say you never grow poor
taking profits. No, you don't. But neither do you grow rich
taking a four-point profit in a bull market.
Where I should have made twenty thousand dollars I made two
thousand. That was what my conservatism did for me. About the
time I discovered what a small percentage of what I should have
made I was getting I discovered something else, and that is that
suckers differ among themselves according to the degree of
experience.
The tyro knows nothing, and everybody, including himself,
knows it. But the next, or second, grade thinks he knows a great
deal and makes others feel that way too. He is the experienced
sucker, who has studied not the market itself but a few remarks
about the market made by a still higher grade of suckers. The
second-grade sucker knows how to keep from losing his money in
some of the ways that get the raw beginner. It is this
semisucker rather than the 100 per cent article who is the real
all-the-year-round support of the commission houses. He lasts
about three and a half years on an average, as compared with a
single season of from three to thirty weeks, which is the usual
Wall Street life of a first offender. It is naturally the
semisucker who is always quoting the famous trading aphorisms
and the various rules of the game. He knows all the don'ts that
ever fell from the oracular lips of the old stagers excepting
the principal one, which is: Don't be a sucker!
This semisucker is the type that thinks he has cut his
wisdom teeth because he loves to buy on declines. He waits for
them. He measures his bargains by the number of points it has
sold off from the top. In big bull markets the plain
unadulterated sucker, utterly ignorant of rules and precedents,
buys blindly because he hopes blindly. He makes most of the
money until one of the healthy reactions takes it away from him
at one fell swoop. But the Careful Mike sucker does what I did
when I thought I was playing the game intelligently according to
the intelligence of others. I knew I needed to change my
bucket-shop methods and I thought I was solving my problem with
any change, particularly one that assayed high gold values
according to the experienced traders among the customers.
Most let us call'em customers -- are alike. You find very
few who can truthfully say that Wall Street doesn't owe them
money. In Fullerton's there were the usual crowd. All grades!
Well, there was one old chap who was not like the others. To
begin with, he was a much older man. Another thing was that he
never volunteered advice and never bragged of his winnings. He
was a great hand for listening very attentively to the others.
He did not seem very keen to get tips -- that is, he never asked
the talkers what they'd heard or what they knew. But when
somebody gave him one he always thanked the tipster very
politely. Sometimes he thanked the tipster again -- when the tip
turned out O.K. But if it went wrong he never whined, so that
nobody could tell whether he followed it or let it slide by. It
was a legend of the office that the old jigger was rich and
could swing quite a line. But he wasn't donating much to the
firm in the way of commissions; at least not that anyone could
see. His name was Partridge, but they nicknamed him Turkey
behind his back, because he was so thick-chested and had a habit
of strutting about the various rooms, with the point of his chin
resting on his breast.
The customers, who were all eager to be shoved and forced
into doing things so as to lay the blame for failure on others,
used to go to old Partridge and tell him what some friend of a
friend of an insider had advised them to do in a certain stock.
They would tell him what they had not done with the tip so he
would tell them what they ought to do. But whether the tip they
had was to buy or to sell, the old chap's answer was always the
same.
 
The customer would finish the tale of his perplexity and
then ask: "What do you think I ought to do?"
Old Turkey would cock his head to one side, contemplate his
fellow customer with a fatherly smile, and finally he would say
very impressively, "You know, it's a bull market!"
Time and again I heard him say, "Well, this is a bull market,
you know!" as though he were giving to you a priceless talisman
wrapped up in a million-dollar accident-insurance policy. And of
course I did not get his meaning.
One day a fellow named Elmer Harwood rushed into the
office, wrote out an order and gave it to the clerk. Then he
rushed over to where Mr. Partridge was listening politely to
John Fanning's story of the time he overheard Keene give an
order to one of his brokers and all that John made was a measly
three points on a hundred shares and of course the stock had to
go up twenty-four points in three days right after John sold
out. It was at least the fourth time that John had told him that
tale of woe, but old Turkey was smiling as sympathetically as if
it was the first time he heard it.
Well, Elmer made for the old man and, without a word of
apology to John Fanning, told Turkey, "Mr. Partridge, I have
just sold my Climax Motors. My people say the market is entitled
to a reaction and that I'll be able to buy it back cheaper. So
you'd better do likewise. That is, if you've still got yours."
Elmer looked suspiciously at the man to whom he had given the
original tip to buy. The amateur, or gratuitous, tipster always
thinks he owns the receiver of his tip body and soul, even
before he knows how the tip is going to turn out.
"Yes, Mr. Harwood, I still have it. Of course!" said Turkey
gratefully. It was nice of Elmer to think of the old chap.
"Well, now is the time to take your profit and get in again on
the next dip," said Elmer, as if he had just made out the
deposit slip for the old man. Failing to perceive enthusiastic
gratitude in the beneficiary's face Elmer went on: "I have just
sold every share I owned!"
From his voice and manner you would have conservatively
estimated it at ten thousand shares.
But Mr. Partridge shook his head regretfully and whined, "No!
No! I can't do that!"
:'What?" yelled Elmer.
"I simply can't!" said Mr. Partridge. He was in great
trouble.
"Didn't I give you the tip to buy it?"
"You did, Mr. Harwood, and I am very grateful to you.
Indeed, I am, sir. But --"
"Hold on! Let me talk! And didn't that stock go up seven
points in ten days? Didn't it?"
"It did, and I am much obliged to you, my dear boy. But I
couldn't think of selling that stock."
"You couldn't?" asked Elmer, beginning to look doubtful
himself. It is a habit with most tip givers to be tip takers.
"No, I couldn't."
"Why not?" And Elmer drew nearer.
"Why, this is a bull market!" The old fellow said it as
though he had given a long and detailed explanation.
"That's all right," said Elmer, looking angry because of
his disappointment. "I know this is a bull market as well as you
do. But you'd better slip them that stock of yours and buy it
back on the reaction. You might as well reduce the cost to
yourself."
"My dear boy," said old Partridge, in great distress "my
dear boy, if I sold that stock now I'd lose my position; and
then where would I be?"
Elmer Harwood threw up his hands, shook his head and walked
over to me to get sympathy: "Can you beat it?" he asked me in a
stage whisper. "I ask you!"
I didn't say anything. So he went on: "I give him a tip on
Climax Motors. He buys five hundred shares. He's got seven
points' profit and I advise him to get out and buy 'em back on
the reaction that's overdue even now. And what does he say when
I tell him? He says that if he sells he'll lose his job. What do
you know about that?"
"I beg your pardon, Mr. Harwood; I didn't say I'd lose my
job," cut in old Turkey. "I said I'd lose my position. And when
you are as old as I am and you've been through as many booms and
panics as I have, you'll know that to lose your position is
something nobody can afford; not even John D. Rockefeller. I
hope the stock reacts and that you will be able to repurchase
your line at a substantial concession, sir. But I myself can
only trade in accordance with the experience of many years. I
paid a high price for it and I don't feel like throwing away a
second tuition fee. But I am as much obliged to you as if I had
the money in the bank. It's a bull market, you know." And he
strutted away, leaving Elmer dazed.
What old Mr. Partridge said did not mean much to me until I
began to think about my own numerous failures to make as much
money as I ought to when I was so right on the general market.
The more I studied the more I realized how wise that old chap
was. He had evidently suffered from the same defect in his young
days and knew his own human weaknesses. He would not lay himself
open to a temptation that experience had taught him was hard to
resist and had always proved expensive to him, as it was to me.
I think it was a long step forward in my trading education
when I realized at last that when old Mr. Partridge kept on
telling the other customers, "Well, you know this is a bull
market!" he really meant to tell them that the big money was not
in the individual fluctuations but in the main movements that
is, not in reading the tape but in sizing up the entire market
and its trend.
And right here let me say one thing: After spending many
years in Wall Street and after making and losing millions of
dollars I want to tell you this: It never was my thinking that
made the big money for me. It always was my sitting. Got that?
My sitting tight! It is no trick at all to be right on the
market. You always find lots of early bulls in bull markets and
early bears in bear markets. I've known many men who were right
at exactly the right time, and began buying or selling stocks
when prices were at the very level, which should show the
greatest profit. And their experience invariably matched mine --
that is, they made no real money out of it. Men who can both be
right and sit tight are uncommon. I found it one of the hardest
things to learn. But it is only after a stock operator has
firmly grasped this that he can make big money. It is literally
true that millions come easier to a trader after he knows how to
trade than hundreds did in the days of his ignorance.
The reason is that a man may see straight and clearly and
yet become impatient or doubtful when the market takes its time
about doing as he figured it must do. That is why so many men in
Wall Street, who are not at all in the sucker class, not even in
the third grade, nevertheless lose money. The market does not
beat them. They beat themselves, because though they have brains
they cannot sit tight. Old Turkey was dead right in doing and
saying what he did. He had not only the courage of his
convictions but the intelligent patience to sit tight.
Disregarding the big swing and trying to jump in and out
was fatal to me. Nobody can catch all the fluctuations. In a
bull market your game is to buy and hold until you believe that
the bull market is near its end. To do this you must study
general conditions and not tips or special factors affecting
individual stocks. Then get out of all your stocks; get out for
keeps! Wait until you see -- or if you prefer, until you think
you see the turn of the market; the beginning of a reversal of
general conditions. You have to use your brains and your vision
to do this; otherwise my advice would be as idiotic as to tell
you to buy cheap and sell dear. One of the most helpful things
that anybody can learn is to give up trying to catch the last
eighth or the first. These two are the most expensive eighths in
the world. They have cost stock traders, in the aggregate,
enough millions of dollars to build a concrete highway across
the continent.
Another thing I noticed in studying my plays in Fullerton's
office after I began to trade less unintelligently was that my
initial operations seldom showed me a loss. That naturally made
me decide to start big. It gave me confidence in my own judgment
before I allowed it to be vitiated by the advice of others or
even by my own impatience at times. Without faith in his own
judgment no man can go very far in this game. That is about all
I have learned to study general conditions, to take a position
and stick to it. I can wait without a twinge of impatience. I
can see a setback without being shaken, knowing that it is only
temporary. I have been short one hundred thousand shares and I
have seen a big rally coming. I have figured and figured
correctly -- that such a rally as I felt was inevitable, and
even wholesome, would make a difference of one million dollars
in my paper profits. And I nevertheless have stood pat and seen
half my paper profit wiped out, without once considering the
advisability of covering my shorts to put them out again on the
rally. I knew that if I did I might lose my position and with it
the certainty of a big killing. It is the big swing that makes
the big money for you.
 
I sold my position in silver this morning at 2800. After I did that, i thought to myself, "WTF am i doing?" I recalled the passage from Reminiscences that i posted above. I re bought my position in silver at 2820.

edit: currently trading at 2850
 
Quote from retaildaytrader:

I have come to Elitetrader to announce the top is now in. We have topped. The next low will be in March of next year. I am putting my reputation on the line this post. The next recession will start in January. The recovery has ended.

What if you are wrong? If I am wrong, I will get stopped out and then examine the market to see how it is acting, and if I can see any predictable pattern or opportunity, I will then position myself to try and best take advantage. What will you do if you are wrong?
 
Quote from limitdown:

not to pick on your comment,

ok, to pick on your comment (take with a grain of salt)

we use "recognize" in America,

generally those who speak English in other countries use "recognise"

Yes, I'm aware of that thanks. What's your point? Surely you are aware that there are not just American residents and citizens posting on this board.
 
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