Paste this one on the rest, "Inconsistent Sytems are Fragile"
Would you share a trading idea?
- Thread starter reno4nook
- Start date
Paste this one on the rest, "Inconsistent Sytems are Fragile"
Multioption, Wilders systems were garbage, how he paddled his way into profits is beyond me. At least the turtles have actually made money and been acknowledged for it publicly. The public that is investing in traders has not heard of lane and wilders.
As for "being right" , turtles arent concerned about that. A turtle system is based solely on price and managed by volatility, thats all. There is no maybe, or modifying an indicator to suit what you think may be the potential outcome.
Have you ever tried to get filled in size or sell off a large lot of options? You get killed on the spread, and options werent liquid at the time the turtles initiated their trading program, and options still arent liquid enough for a large trader ( $1 million + account nowadays)
You might consider reading Michael Covels book Trendfollowing to clear up your misunderstandings.
As for "being right" , turtles arent concerned about that. A turtle system is based solely on price and managed by volatility, thats all. There is no maybe, or modifying an indicator to suit what you think may be the potential outcome.
Have you ever tried to get filled in size or sell off a large lot of options? You get killed on the spread, and options werent liquid at the time the turtles initiated their trading program, and options still arent liquid enough for a large trader ( $1 million + account nowadays)
You might consider reading Michael Covels book Trendfollowing to clear up your misunderstandings.
I tested out your views on talent by checking back over as many years as I have mentored (40+).
Let's agree that any person who is really knocking it down as an amateur has "geniune talent".
You say that information is in the picture for all so it is not a consideration. But it all comes down to talent.
I think in terms of knowledge, skills and experience, personally.
Chess, batting, etc are kindred to great traders with genuine talent.
What I see is a pie chart with three pieces. Lay it out on the floor and place on top of it a large bed spring that spirals upward as it goes around the pieces of pie labelled knowledge, skills and experience. It is the iterative refinement helix that elevate a person to expert and expertise.
That person is genuinely talented if he is way up there at the top of the helix. Maybe. But for sure he has done everything required each trip around the helix. for me "everything required" is all the drills practised to be able to function just like riding a bike without thinking about it. For me, Lance Armstrong, cuts it because he is different than mostly everyone else. He has made himself different by building on natural gifts that he took the time to measure and understand completely.
I think natural talents end in the 3rd of 4th form and from that point on "getting by on your good looks" is history.
Getting to the top of trading and being great at it comes from working as required to get the drills done.
Trading in the markets is anything but rocket science. Its not a talent thing as I see it. Almost anyone is basically equiped to make the effort to become great.
If a person craps out is would be primarily because he never saw the market out there. It is really a tough thing to spend tons of time and get no results because you never put the market in front of you to take a look at it.
If mentoring is anything, it is getting people to see the market and do the drills. Talent, I don't think so. We can agree to call it genuine talent but is that really the name of this type of success.
Quote from nitro:
MUHAHAHAH
MUHAHAHAHA
BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
BUAWGHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Oooooooooooooh man, tooo funny.
nitro
Although I am on a different end of the scales with nitro (am a discretionary trader) I agree on this one.
Once the markets are properly understood then trading is disgustingly simple. It took me 6 years of full time study to come up with something that can be written up in half a page / can be explained in 20 minutes and will generate profits like there is no tomorrow. In addition it works in all timeframes and in all markets.
Now you expect me to tell anyone what it is?
MUHAHAHAH
MUHAHAHAHA
BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
BUAWGHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Oooooooooooooh man, tooo funny.
You don't have to tell anyone anything you don't want to. It won't likely help or hurt you either way, especially if it's a general theory that takes 20 minutes to explain and works in all markets. My point was that someone else on this huge and populous planet has probably already figured out what secrets you have gleaned in your six years, and has probably already published it sometime in the last few hundred years or so. Six years is a fraction of most successful traders' experience and unfortunately isn't a sure sign of ultimate greatness. Of course, I may be completely wrong, but you can't prove it unless you either start a real-time journal here on ET, or tell us your secret and let us analyse it, profit from your greatness, and worship you as you so rightfully deserve. If you won't tell anybody what you know, the readers of ET can't tell you whether you're right or I'm right. It's just your word versus a very heavy probability. If you do teach others, you help other people while allowing others to examine your work for possible holes or defects. Other traders, myself included, would gratefully help you perfect your strategy if possible. Of course, if it's perfect already, I look forward to seeing you rule the world in a year or two.
btw, nice first post. Thanks for signing up just to respond to me.
1. Which of Welles Wilder's indicator do you consider garbage? I have made over $1M trading options using his DMI in addition to EMA and MACD. Do you want proof?
2. $OEX and other indices are liquid enough for $1M+ account.
3. I'll definitely get the book. Thanks so much!
I'm impressed. Just think if you were on the cutting edge of TA and got rid of the "Average" indicator and the "Mom's Acidic Chop & Dice" indicator how much more money you would have made or retained.
I dont know multioption but i feel the urge to say:
Psytrade just lost all credibility by recommending anything to do with Covell --- the non / fail / upsidedown-turtle --- psy, if u want true turtle info ask Curtis Faith.
Charlie, thats a typically stupid et attitude --- "I know the best indicator of all" "price is everything" or some such crap.
If a trader can understand the market in terms of his or her tools and then trade it successfully --- Well Done!!
Good on you multioption (but don't waste your money on that book of Covel's - hes a didnt make it turtle whos scammed lots of people with an expensive poorly prepared and poorly supported course).
Psytrade just lost all credibility by recommending anything to do with Covell --- the non / fail / upsidedown-turtle --- psy, if u want true turtle info ask Curtis Faith.
Charlie, thats a typically stupid et attitude --- "I know the best indicator of all" "price is everything" or some such crap.
If a trader can understand the market in terms of his or her tools and then trade it successfully --- Well Done!!
Good on you multioption (but don't waste your money on that book of Covel's - hes a didnt make it turtle whos scammed lots of people with an expensive poorly prepared and poorly supported course).
oh...I should have known better. The guy owns a web site - http://www.turtletrader.com
Curtis Faith and some other original turtle traders alleged that Michael Covels did not make any money following their rules because he couldn't just do it.
The site - http://www.turtletrader.com, despite the bad press, does offer some interesting comments on traders, gurus, advisors, et al.
Quote from FuturesTrader71:
& BUY low and sell high- traderyin
Phew..... [wiping sweat off brow]
I thought you were going to say, buy high and sell higher with size.... which is my "secret" system.... oh oooops. I let it out of the bag. Darn!
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Wow;
you ''uncovered ''another good secret system which does both.
And while you have a good system Futstrader71;
I distinctly remember 3 0r 4 years ago when it stopped working,
bought /sold JNPR north of $200.
And wouldnt you know it;
like a good ,robust,secret system its working again now for years.