Would you share a trading idea?
- Thread starter reno4nook
- Start date
Early last year, the Party Poker $200+15 sng's (Single table tournaments) were my ATM. I figured out how to best play these, and only a scant handful of sharks were playing there at my level. I knew that if my opponents were to know what I knew, my edge would be gone, and the games would dry up quicker than Ted Kennedy's whisky glass.
Did that prevent me from teaching my strategy to anyone I felt like helping? Not at all. Not because I didn't realize that spreading my 'holy grail' would ultimately take money directly out of my own pocket, but probably out of the character flaw of surplus benevolence, and desire to be the good guy. I even made a half hour recording to teach my once valuable strategy, and several ET members here can attest to hearing me play the recording for them over the phone.
Less than a year after the 'golden age' of online poker, the dumb money was almost completely gone, and nearly all the pros making six figures in '04, made absolutely <b>nothing</b> in '05.
Did I personally cause this free money ATM to dry up so fast? Honestly, I think my impact was minimal. After all, there are plenty of other pros out there with the ability to figure out the exact same things I did.
Did that prevent me from teaching my strategy to anyone I felt like helping? Not at all. Not because I didn't realize that spreading my 'holy grail' would ultimately take money directly out of my own pocket, but probably out of the character flaw of surplus benevolence, and desire to be the good guy. I even made a half hour recording to teach my once valuable strategy, and several ET members here can attest to hearing me play the recording for them over the phone.
Less than a year after the 'golden age' of online poker, the dumb money was almost completely gone, and nearly all the pros making six figures in '04, made absolutely <b>nothing</b> in '05.
Did I personally cause this free money ATM to dry up so fast? Honestly, I think my impact was minimal. After all, there are plenty of other pros out there with the ability to figure out the exact same things I did.
Babak, are you on drugs? Those philanthropic traders you mentioned are VENDERS On top of it, they're not offering a system. They're offering some canned set-ups, albeit some with creativity, but then again if they displayed no uniqueness they wouldn't have anything to sell either.
Read Market Wizards. Nice series by Schwager. Cool bio's, some insights here and there, but absolutely NO ONE'S talking about what they're REALLY using. I exchange ideas all the time one on one with good traders. If I found the Holy Grail, which of course DOES NOT EXIST BTW, yes I would share it with my best friends. But I'd know it dilutes me. End of rant. LOL.
The turtle strategy was contractually binded by Richard Dennis. It wore off a few years back and thast why some of the previous ones published that website with the rules. Typically secrets are not shared. I do not believe the fact that experienced traders freely give away their strategies. Tell that to that guy from the GS prop who changed the subject of the conversation as soon as my cousin asked him what he does!
It depends on the situation. Of course, if I ran into someone at a party (for instance), and he says he is with a hedge fund, I wouldn't ask him about his strategy (and he likewise won't ask about mine), it is the unwritten confidentiality rule. However, if you ran into the *same person* at a conference for quantitative finance, I have had it happen often that over the catered lunch / dinner, we can struck up a conversation on "general" trading ideas, no specifics, of course, and alot of observations about the market in general, but a little of their strategy can be talked about.
I am usually surprised at academic workshops how much people talk about, especially from modeling papers it is only 2-3 extrapolations away from the actual general strategy itself. Most of the trades will not be applicable for anybody other than the main players in the specific instruments, of course.
Personally, I have had very open discussions with head of desks (not the firm that I was working for) about their trade problems, optimization problems, weird trading environments, execution strategy, etc. However, the standard disclaimer is that we are not trading the same instrument universes, so it is a "purely" intellectual discussion.
Rufus
I am usually surprised at academic workshops how much people talk about, especially from modeling papers it is only 2-3 extrapolations away from the actual general strategy itself. Most of the trades will not be applicable for anybody other than the main players in the specific instruments, of course.
Personally, I have had very open discussions with head of desks (not the firm that I was working for) about their trade problems, optimization problems, weird trading environments, execution strategy, etc. However, the standard disclaimer is that we are not trading the same instrument universes, so it is a "purely" intellectual discussion.
Rufus
It is the nature of the market to wear out an edge until it becomes blunt and ineffective. This is common sense, since an edge is simply an inefficiency that is being exploited at some level.
As the participants evolve, so does the market with them. So what once worked will no longer work at the same level at some point in the future. This is the nature of pretty much everything that is on the cutting edge.
I agree with Babak on this one. I have been around guys who, I think, pull in per year what the top producers of this site can when pooled together. I found that they were the most open about what they do and they exhibit a very humble and a matter-of-fact tone when talking about exactly what they look for day in and day out. The ones that feel protective of what they know are the ones that have evolved the slowest, in my opinion.
The big traders keep things very simple and look at me funny when I ask about the simplest technical aspect because they think it is all out there and is obvious enough. I ask things like, "but why would you buy here if there is this fib/resistance level approaching." Their answer is, "because it is going up." The difference they think between a good trader and a poor one is whether he have the "brass-balls" or not and will not hesitate to act when he is wrong.
I strongly believe this. I have learned a lot by sharing my knowledge with my traders and on here at ET. The questions that arise from the conversations have sometimes led me to make adjustments to improve and evolve with everyone I share with. I can't emphasize how valuable this is. I think many would agree from my postings that I don't hide much and speak freely of what I know.
With that being said, I wouldn't go and hand over a detailed trading plan that I have busted my butt to put together. A good craftsman is not afraid to talk about his tools, materials and approach and doesn't mind putting it out there for everyone to see. However, he doesn't hand his tools out to the crowd and show them exactly how to make each stroke to create what he considers to be his masterpieces.
There is so much information out there now on this site and others where systems are available to the public and some are even detailed to the last dot. This, in my experience, doesn't lead to everyone "making it" in the business. There is a lot to it than a strat or trading plan.
Cheers to all of you.
As the participants evolve, so does the market with them. So what once worked will no longer work at the same level at some point in the future. This is the nature of pretty much everything that is on the cutting edge.
I agree with Babak on this one. I have been around guys who, I think, pull in per year what the top producers of this site can when pooled together. I found that they were the most open about what they do and they exhibit a very humble and a matter-of-fact tone when talking about exactly what they look for day in and day out. The ones that feel protective of what they know are the ones that have evolved the slowest, in my opinion.
The big traders keep things very simple and look at me funny when I ask about the simplest technical aspect because they think it is all out there and is obvious enough. I ask things like, "but why would you buy here if there is this fib/resistance level approaching." Their answer is, "because it is going up." The difference they think between a good trader and a poor one is whether he have the "brass-balls" or not and will not hesitate to act when he is wrong.
I strongly believe this. I have learned a lot by sharing my knowledge with my traders and on here at ET. The questions that arise from the conversations have sometimes led me to make adjustments to improve and evolve with everyone I share with. I can't emphasize how valuable this is. I think many would agree from my postings that I don't hide much and speak freely of what I know.
With that being said, I wouldn't go and hand over a detailed trading plan that I have busted my butt to put together. A good craftsman is not afraid to talk about his tools, materials and approach and doesn't mind putting it out there for everyone to see. However, he doesn't hand his tools out to the crowd and show them exactly how to make each stroke to create what he considers to be his masterpieces.
There is so much information out there now on this site and others where systems are available to the public and some are even detailed to the last dot. This, in my experience, doesn't lead to everyone "making it" in the business. There is a lot to it than a strat or trading plan.
Cheers to all of you.
True. But look at the success that some of the elite here at ET have had. Also look at some of the 'sharing" they have done.
Spydertraders success's comes to mind right away. He was very public and helpful in describing his system in his first journal - (the hershey method), over the last year. I am sure many of us benefited from his system - yet, our participation did not seem to affect his edge.
Sry but I'll have to agree with Pabst here. People share when things stop working, and then it's usually to sell some course, book, or seminar tour.
Put another way, if you think some of the things shared to the public in the past work well, the stuff they don't share would blow your socks off.
i very often share with other traders WHAT i do --- but i never tell them fully HOW i do it --- that is their job.
very successful trading is figuring out strategies for yourself --- earn it!
very successful trading is figuring out strategies for yourself --- earn it!