Would you do it all over again?

I agree with Big Money's post.

It would be difficult for me to justify working so much, and so alone, if I was in my early 20s, instead of enjoying life. And you will have to work your ass off to have a glimpse of making it. I wouldn't pursue it if I was in my early 20s, as life could be better spent, UNLESS you have a great the opportunity to find a mentor. And I don't mean wackos on the internet, I mean someone you sit side by side with every day and watch them trade.

There are a lot of ways to make money out there in the world. People get attracted to trading because of the low barrier to entry and amount of money you can potentially make. But because that low barrier to entry, competition is extremely fierce and relentless. Trading often appeals to engineer types and IT types who are used to being smart and want to "figure it out". If you are an extrovert you may have difficulty if your trading situation dictates you sit alone in front of a wall of monitors all day, every day, especially since you are young. All in all, you may have a more rewarding life, and the potential to make a significant sum of money owning your own business.
 
If I could go back in time, knowing what I now know, I would not do trading again.

Compared to online poker, tradng has a patchy and volatile equity curve. Poker is a smooth line.
 
Quote from kxvid:

I was exactly like you a six months ago. I am 19 now and quit trading. Moved on to other ventures. I wasn't profitable my first year in 08 despite heavy short bias and the market's fall. I traded index futures primary. My first account was severely under capitalized though which didn't help. For example on September 11 2008 I was short when the dow was 10k+ but I still got crushed even though it was a great longer term even short term entry.

I was short 1 YM on a 5.5k account (talk about undercapilization) on sept 11 and the market just kept on rising. I blew out that account and funded another for 12k, which I took down to 9k my first day then made it back in a week. Then I had many crazy swings on that account trading index options, but YM index futures primary. Eventually I blew out that account as well, only withdrawing 9k.

I took that 9k and opened another brokerage account with velocity futures. I traded for a while and got as close as I could to consistent profitability. I was scalping and I would make often average $200 for many days in a row with no down days. In a week I took that account to 10.4k, partly aided by the stock market's free fall early this year. I was about as close to consistent profitability scalp trading the YM then, but ultimately I was unsuccessful at making a living from it. I believe it is within my reach, but I couldn't stand the uselessness and isolation of trading. It is also an emotional ride and I believe it made me a worse person at times getting angry etc with people because of losing $ trading that day.

The thing that made me quit trading was being caught up in a 100pt short squeeze in minutes before the closing bell recently. I was short 3 YM and got hammered almost 2k after just spending a week recovering my losses. I lost discipline, up until that point I was up $200 for the day. I should've followed my rule about if its a good day you can only make it worse by doing one more trade. I withdrew about 7.5k from that account, making it the 3rd straight acct I put more money in than I took out.

I hope you are successful but the odds are against you, I am sure you realize. Chances are you will just end up making someone else rich like your broker or clearing houses while you take the risks, like I did. I paid north of 2k in commissions in all my trading, my total losses are around 4k.

You have to ask yourself if there isn't something else you'd rather be doing than trading with your investment capital. Maybe you would rather use it to start a biz that could make you rich and maybe even at the same time create something you think the world needs.

If you do go ahead with trading, I recommend you don't do the same type of compulsive noise trading I did. I would stay in a trade for minutes, or less than a minute sometimes. While it fed my compulsive urge to trade, it is a waste of time and life. I think you should rather trade with weeks or months of patience to see your trade through. It is your money. Don't fall for the broker's trick trying to make you trade as often as possible. With trading less is more really.
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This is a post well worth reading for anyone starting out, especially anyone getting into this business for the thrill.

While I don't agree that short term trading can't be done, I do not think it's the place a newbie should start. I think you should work your way down.

Ultimatly trading is about making good choices and decisions. Your decision making ability is going to be as bad as it's ever going to be when you start...so why not start off with a longer term time frame that forces you to make less of them...and gives you a longer period of time between them to learn from the ones you make...both good and bad.

In the end trading is a richly rewarding business for those who are successful. However, a lot of people will walk away feeling as though they threw away a significant amount of money, not to mention a significant portion of their lives.

I can't imagine not trading, even though I'm significantly less active now and I have another business I enjoy more and am better at. I can't imagine my life had I not decided at 18 years old to give it a try though (after all your young at that point and have plenty of time to recover even from the stupidest of choices) and I wouldnt change a thing.

That all said the above post is one that should be required reading because I think that a majority of people who try it will end up eventually feeling exactly how the poster here feels.

Brandon
 
Quote from Aboveyou:

LOOOOOLLLLL

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO TRADE BUT YOU HAVE A RICH DADDY AND SO YOU SURVIVE

LOL

thanks, I needed a laugh today :p
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You know I see him as a guy who probably could decide to live off his dad, but he's not taken that road.

A lot of traders come from wealthy families, in fact most of the biggest ones I know come from at least upper middle class backgrounds. There is nothing wrong with it. One has no more control over being born to wealthy parents then one has being born into poverty.

It's not what you've been given, it's what you make of it.

The only thing you manage to do with your post is come off as a jelous and angry person.

Brandon
 
Thanks Brandon,

I probably overestimated the number of traders that comes from a rich family when I said 80 %. It may be more like 60 %, but in France, when you got 1 M EUR you are rich, the standard are really lower than in the US.

I made more last year than any of my close friends, relatives ....although the figure may not be impressive for you. My dad just sees I am totally focused at trading, work hard, found something to do with my life, something that is making me happy and so is very supportive.

I just won't rent a ghetto appartment, abolish any leisure activity just to make it sound cooler.
 
Quote from TraDaToR:

,

I probably overestimated the number of traders that comes from a rich family when I said 80 %. It may be more like 60 %, but in France, when you got 1 M EUR you are rich, the standard are really lower than in the US.

.
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Not that I would want to use this as an opportunity to go off on politics: But that's why the United States should not look to Europe as an ideal on just about anything. When you said 80% of successful traders come from wealthy families, I suspect you said that from your experience in your Europe. My (somewhat limited) experience with Western Europeans is that there are very few self made millionares. The European mindset seems to be geared towards having everyone relatively equal off.
There are actually alot of studies, even by places like Harvard, showing why it works so well in Scandanavian Countries, for example, and people are happy with it- but it would never work in America. The conclussion is very unPC. At any rate you made the point better than I could have.

My dad just sees I am totally focused at trading, work hard, found something to do with my life, something that is making me happy and so is very supportive.
As would any father. I can't think of anything more I could want for either of my two children.

I just won't rent a ghetto appartment, abolish any leisure activity just to make it sound cooler
You shouldnt have too, and to be honest I doubt it's something your parents would have wanted you to do. One reason we work hard is so that our kids can have an easier time of it than we did.

My biggest problem with the guys post who I responded to was just his very obvious resentment of wealth, or at least yours. Well what the hell are we all doing here if not trying to create wealth for ourselves and our families. It's also absurd to hold a child in either esteem or contempt because of the situation of the parent. You have no more control over the fact that your dad is relatively wealthy then I had over the fact that my mother was on welfare for a short time when I was a toddler.

In any case good luck.

Brandon
PS. Hook me up with some hot ass french girl so I don't have to keep sorting through these damn american girls...plus I can get national healthcare too :))
 
France has always been like that: Big mouth, small acts, continuous whining, jealousy...

You have to be borderline crazy or dumb to create a real economic activity( with employees, production...) in France. The tax pressure, state regulations are so rude that you really need a jedi mind to succeed. You give like 60-70 %( not sure of the number )of what your company makes to the state and 40-50 % of income tax if they are meaningful... At least Sarko capped it to 50 %.

Nobody is trading around my place. Nobody knows it is possible to make a living trading and most would never try. There are some guys trading for a living in Lyon but most are in Geneva and Lausanne...

When you make 30-35K EUR per year, you have a good paying job, nobody is making 6 figures. If you do, you are self-employed or company owner and might better not show it off.

The social security is great but definitely not worth the economic sacrifices made to sustend it.

At least, it is true we have the chicks( although I like US girls too ), those who are 20-25 now are just plain beauties , I have a barbecue tonight and will try to hook you up... :D LOL

Good WE:)
 
Quote from TraDaToR:

France has always been like that: Big mouth, small acts, continuous whining, jealousy...

You have to be borderline crazy or dumb to create a real economic activity( with employees, production...) in France. The tax pressure, state regulations are so rude that you really need a jedi mind to succeed. You give like 60-70 %( not sure of the number )of what your company makes to the state and 40-50 % of income tax if they are meaningful... At least Sarko capped it to 50 %.

Nobody is trading around my place. Nobody knows it is possible to make a living trading and most would never try. There are some guys trading for a living in Lyon but most are in Geneva and Lausanne...

When you make 30-35K EUR per year, you have a good paying job, nobody is making 6 figures. If you do, you are self-employed or company owner and might better not show it off.

The social security is great but definitely not worth the economic sacrifices made to sustend it.

At least, it is true we have the chicks( although I like US girls too ), those who are 20-25 now are just plain beauties , I have a barbecue tonight and will try to hook you up... :D LOL

Good WE:)
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In August I have a big court case coming up and I'm gonna need to chill out and relax when it's over. I've not decided on Europe or South America yet, but in any case I'm going to go for 3 or 4 weeks. I might go as part of a contiki tour as those are pretty fun, but it might be cool to just chill by myself too. In any case if I end up in Euroland I'll let ya know.

Brandon
 
Quote from Euler:

But I think that a lot of the traditional professions are better, overall. Take, e.g., medicine and higher-end law -- these professions are far more consistent and respected, I think, and less apt to get you roped in with a gold digger (if you are a man, that is).


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This is true. I can't say I get much respect from friends and extended family. One relative had the guts to say to my face, "Get a real job." Obviously trading is a real job, because it's making me real money for my bills.

You just have to find friends who trade and make allies.

I hear "you dont work for your money"

"you got it easy"

b;ah blah blah...but none of these people realize, it's my hard earned money that I made in traditional work that got me here!

How many traders use to...work in a grocery store, drive truck, work in an office, wait on tables, flip burgers...
we all done it, and aint going back :)
 
Jaytrade,

I actually have the opposite reaction from family and friends. They want to talk about it and show me how smart they are with their investments (yeah). Truthfully, it is a rare bird that understands on any level exactly what it is we do. When meeting people at parties or social functions, they either just want to impress you with their knowledge or run away as soon as they think “wall street.”(LOL, especially lately). Most people don’t understand their mortgage let alone what a derivative futures contract is. But they sure like to pretend they do. True, it isn’t the PC profession it used to be but that is fine with me.

As for your family member, in a few years when they are laid off and ask you for money, just tell them to “get a real job.” I am not sure how I would have reacted other than a smirk and just amazement (hopefully). Of course, they are probably old school and work manual labor or in a factory. Ignorance makes the world go round. People tend to shun what they don’t understand. I would probably ask them why they felt that way to see if they have any concept of what I actually do. Invite them to your office. They will probably think it is like watching paint dry.

Good trading

BM
 
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