Would Bernie Sanders Kill Trading As We Know It?

[piezoe]

I am for reasonable infrastructure spending. The problem is that government tends to waste money on bureaucracy and are too politically correct to say that engineering is a more worthy field to support than music history.

Also, you couldn't make it "Free" like Bernie is pushing. There has to be skin in the game for adults to pursue education.

I agree with the skin in the game concept as an important component. One form of this skin in the game concept might be reasonable qualification standards for admission and continuation. Most public Universities have those in place. In other words if you are a slacker you're not likely to be able to qualify.

I don't think it is workable to get into a debate on the merits of this or that discipline. Having to fund things we're unenthusiastic about, to put it mildly, I suppose is one of the downsides to democracy. The nice thing about anarchy would be that we'd get free rein over what we spent our money on, assuming money still somehow existed.

 

[piezoe]

British model has gone ahead of us by many years and shows how things might play out here in US. Like in the British model, there would be created a 'special region' such as Manhattan for private and corporate financial activities with special taxation, special regulation, special administration etc...which would allow business, trade and financial activities to continue as they should

In Britain this special region is called the "City of London"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Corporation

Bernie's people have defined the City of London model here:

http://taxjustice.blogspot.com/2009/02/corporation-of-london-state-within.html

even in this above somewhat skewed version of the city, they admit that the city provides half million high paying jobs within a square mile of land

every socialist country has a similar example. In china its Hong Kong, in Russia it was Riga and Berlin, in the middle east it is Dubai, Germany its Frankfort

Good information. Thanks. It seems most of your examples, if not all, come from countries with mixed economies. Among major nations, I don't know of any that are anything close to pure capitalism or pure socialism. I don't know anything much about Dubai, other than it appears to be a brutal place to get stuck if you are a non-citizen guest worker.

 

[gwb-trading]

Okay. But how do you deal with the fact that high school is free, and that in the work force a high school diploma a few decades ago was equivalent to what a college degree is today? If you want the country's work force to be competitive on the world stage, you will have to treat them as well as the countries with whom you compete. Consider the long view.

As for health care, everyone should have it. It is not even an issue for debate in civilized society.

Keep in mind that in other countries where college education is free a much smaller percentage of students are admitted into 4 year universities. The percentage of university graduates is a much smaller percentage of the general population. This is what happens in an environment where university education is effectively rationed, the cut-off to get in much higher. This also explains the increasing number of European students appearing at American universities because they failed to get in back home.

Is the U.S. ready for a mere 14% of our population being university educated rather than 30%+ -- because the education is "free".

How do European countries stay competitive in manufacturing and other sectors... there are two paths in high school; the university track and the trades school track. A large number of students who are not in the top 10% of their high school class are directed to the trade school track. The trade schools are one or two year schools including internships that train students for jobs in the trades sector. This system has helped Germany and other countries maintain a competitive workforce while having a much lower percentage of university graduates in their population.

The reality is that the U.S. has too may worthless college majors, worthless degrees (e.g. for profit universities), and worthless graduates who cannot get a job in their field. We would be far better off directing the high school students not in the top 10% to trade schools and enable them to enter work fields where they are employable.

This however requires a complete re-thinking in the U.S. that any 4 year degree of any type is valuable and desirable. As well as bursting the current higher education bubble -- forcing a reduction in the number of schools and students.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I wouldn't get too twisted up about the campaign trail hyperbole. If, and it's a HUGE if, Sanders gets elected president, there's no way in hell this ever sees the light of day. The golden goose, aka Wall Street, spreads money across all party lines. Lefties love taxes, almost as much as they love lining own pockets with "campaign contributions". There will be no tax on trading. The corporate masters won't approve, and our criminally corrupt congress knows who butters their bread.

 

[jem]

Wall Street had the govt and the exchanges kill the edge we had daytrading.
If they thought they could make more money be forcing non market makers and specialists to pay a tax... they would do it in a New York minute.

Who would have thought Wall Street which owns many large businesses would support a carbon tax... until we learned they would run the carbon exchange.

Voting in Politicians who want more taxes is like sending a large market order to a market maker on a low liquidity stock. Your are going to get the absolute worst fill they can manage.

for instance
Democrats had been talking about single payer for decades... look what Obamacare turned into by the time Wall Street and the insurance companies were done with the democrats.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Keep in mind that in other countries where college education is free a much smaller percentage of students are admitted into 4 year universities. The percentage of university graduates is a much smaller percentage of the general population. This is what happens in an environment where university education is effectively rationed, the cut-off to get in much higher. This also explains the increasing number of European students appearing at American universities because they failed to get in back home.

Is the U.S. ready for a mere 14% of our population being university educated rather than 30%+ -- because the education is "free".

How do European countries stay competitive in manufacturing and other sectors... there are two paths in high school; the university track and the trades school track. A large number of students who are not in the top 10% of their high school class are directed to the trade school track. The trade schools are one or two year schools including internships that train students for jobs in the trades sector. This system has helped Germany and other countries maintain a competitive workforce while having a much lower percentage of university graduates in their population.

The reality is that the U.S. has too may worthless college majors, worthless degrees (e.g. for profit universities), and worthless graduates who cannot get a job in their field. We would be far better off directing the high school students not in the top 10% to trade schools and enable them to enter work fields where they are employable.

This however requires a complete re-thinking in the U.S. that any 4 year degree of any type is valuable and desirable. As well as bursting the current higher education bubble -- forcing a reduction in the number of schools and students.

You raise a few good points but, for the sake of argument, a cut-off at the top 10% seems too restrictive. I don't pretend to know where the number ought to be, but 10% strikes me as somewhat prohibitive at first blush.

 

[gwb-trading]

You raise a few good points but, for the sake of argument, a cut-off at the top 10% seems too restrictive. I don't pretend to know where the number ought to be, but 10% strikes me as somewhat prohibitive at first blush.

Keep in mind that in several European countries only the top 10% of the high school class is placed on the university-bound academic track. In some high schools it is more, in others less. I don't know what the right number is... but it is definitely below 20% across most countries that offer "free" university schooling.

 

[ET180]

The reality is that the U.S. has too may worthless college majors, worthless degrees (e.g. for profit universities), and worthless graduates who cannot get a job in their field. We would be far better off directing the high school students not in the top 10% to trade schools and enable them to enter work fields where they are employable.

I agree, but the US is way too soft to ever implement such a program. The truth is that no kid left behind is a joke. Some kids should be left behind because given unlimited resources in the form of education / substitute parenting (that's really what pre-K education is about), they will consume far more resources than they will ever produce. And money that goes towards that wasted education cannot be spent on defense and health research which benefits every citizen. I like the idea of a trade school route as the default, but there should always be a way to further education if / when the person becomes sufficiently motivated.

 

[Pricechange]

I wouldn't get too twisted up about the campaign trail hyperbole. If, and it's a HUGE if, Sanders gets elected president, there's no way in hell this ever sees the light of day. The golden goose, aka Wall Street, spreads money across all party lines. Lefties love taxes, almost as much as they love lining own pockets with "campaign contributions". There will be no tax on trading. The corporate masters won't approve, and our criminally corrupt congress knows who butters their bread.

US seems to be heading little by little in this direction even without Sanders. Hillary would probably move somewhat in this direction. Seems there are lefties in Wall Street that have emerged since Obama came in.

 

[i am nobody]

All countries need money and have huge debts. So all countries are looking where they can take money.
The world champions are the Belgian politicians. Since 1/1/2016 there is a speculation tax. If you buy and sell within a period of 6 months you have to pay 33% taxes. AND losses cannot be deducted! This is a unique system that exist nowhere else. So if you make no losing trades you pay 33%. If you make losing trades you can pay to over 100% of taxes.

Example: 10 winning trades for a total amount of $2500, and 5 losing trades for a total amount of $1000. taxes to pay: 33% on $2500 equals $825.
Your net result is: +$2500 -$1000 -$825 or $675. Paid taxes: $825 or 55%!!!
This is not a joke, this is reality.

If you have some bad luck you pay taxes on your losses.
Example with results of a series of trades: +$1000; -$250; -$250; +$750; +$250; -$450; -$275; +$500; -$345; -$150.
Total result profit $780- $825 (33% taxes on $2500) leaves us -$45 or $825 taxes on a NET LOSS of $45!!!

Volume is already going down and people moved already 50% of the taxed trades in other products in the first month. After the first month the marketleader calculated Eur 50,000 taxes for the government, but the government calculated that these taxes should generate 34 million in 2016! So stil 33,950,000 euro to go the next 11 months. At the same time other taxes that were also applied dropped too as the products they were taxing is traded much less and will soon become zero volume. Net it will be a losing taxing system.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/videozone_ENG/1.2470264

News update: Lynx, a big Belgian broker, announced that they saw a 43% decline in volume of transactions that were hurt by the speculation tax. Overall volume rose because investors massively move away from taxed products into not taxed products. The amount of taxes that Lynx should transfer to the government was supposed to rise to cruising speed. Reality is that the revenues from this speculation tax DROPPED 32% from previous, already minimal amounts.