You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Worldco R.I.P. 1993-2003 ?
- Thread starter bmwstox
- Start date
Quote from I Missed Boat:
Which office? I know a guy at Andover who says the people in his office are not doing well at all. In fact, some of the people training are losing money themselves. Also, people talked trash about Worldco taking so long to get the K1s out (which was rediculous), but I heard some people at Andover still haven't gotten theirs.
I'm at the office that is in the Gray Bar building (connected to Grand Central). Note that there is like 2 other groups in that office besides ours, which are also under Andover. I think there are some guys that are just trading on their own completely there as well.
Let's just be clear that NO ONE is doing that well right now, especially since this Iraq BS started. Not even the wonderful universe of Worldco. Some of the traders here decided not to trade at all during this period. These last two weeks I have actually seen the two good traders that sit with us actually not make money on some the days. But some of the guys still make consistent money everyday regardless.
As for us, the new guys, when I say that we are doing pretty good it is considering the fact that we are new. Apparently at Worldco, new traders are expected to be making millions the day they start, but outside the Worldco universe there is such a factor called "experience" when it comes to trading. Going in, we were told that we were not to expect to make any money for 6 months because it does take time. Keeping that in mind, I feel that I am doing pretty good since I am consistently gross positive for the day and I am getting net positive for the day more frequently as the weeks go by. This is all during this really crappy trading environment.
Quote from Mecro:
I'm at the office that is in the Gray Bar building (connected to Grand Central). Note that there is like 2 other groups in that office besides ours, which are also under Andover. I think there are some guys that are just trading on their own completely there as well.
Let's just be clear that NO ONE is doing that well right now, especially since this Iraq BS started. Not even the wonderful universe of Worldco. Some of the traders here decided not to trade at all during this period. These last two weeks I have actually seen the two good traders that sit with us actually not make money on some the days. But some of the guys still make consistent money everyday regardless.
As for us, the new guys, when I say that we are doing pretty good it is considering the fact that we are new. Apparently at Worldco, new traders are expected to be making millions the day they start, but outside the Worldco universe there is such a factor called "experience" when it comes to trading. Going in, we were told that we were not to expect to make any money for 6 months because it does take time. Keeping that in mind, I feel that I am doing pretty good since I am consistently gross positive for the day and I am getting net positive for the day more frequently as the weeks go by. This is all during this really crappy trading environment.
This is all true, except that Worldco expects new traders to make "millions the day they start." As long as a new trader consistently grosses money after awhile, he or she is in decent shape. Congratulations on your good start in this terrible market!!
Quote from I Missed Boat:
This is all true, except that Worldco expects new traders to make "millions the day they start." As long as a new trader consistently grosses money after awhile, he or she is in decent shape. Congratulations on your good start in this terrible market!!
Thanks
Now is the time to start learning trading, while everything is slow. This way you are ready when (if ever), the good old days come back.
Merco-
You can start improving your trading by removing bullshit statements like these from your daily lingo.....
>>....Let's just be clear that NO ONE is doing that well right now,....<<<
If you feel compelled to dupe yourself into truly believing that, then your road ahead to profitability is going to be quite a *ucking long one.
-momo
You can start improving your trading by removing bullshit statements like these from your daily lingo.....
>>....Let's just be clear that NO ONE is doing that well right now,....<<<
If you feel compelled to dupe yourself into truly believing that, then your road ahead to profitability is going to be quite a *ucking long one.
-momo
Quote from Mecro:
Thanks
Now is the time to start learning trading, while everything is slow. This way you are ready when (if ever), the good old days come back.
I've looked at a variety of different shops, and looked at different offers. I'm going to see what Susquehana is offering. But I want to call my own shots. I'm not interesting in sitting around taking ticket orders, and trading order flow.
Although I've never day traded before, I have been heavily invested in financial markets for close to ten years.
If you are getting into the business of proprietary trading, you need to think of yourself as your own company. If you want a job, go work for someone else. As for myself, even working at a hedge fund or proprietary desk at a larger investment bank. You are more of an order taker than making trading decisions.
Make no doubts about it, trading within a day window will be difficult. Technical signals are useless in the first hour of trading if the market gaps up or down. If you're like me, you have a $4 ticket round trip, $.03 commision round trip, $.08 spread to cover round trip, and $.02-.04 slippage. The larger institional houses have a better deal for traders because (1) they're usually the market maker, (2) get to front run the order flow, (3) get the analyst news ahead of time, and (4) commisions are just ECN fees. However, the payout is completely arbitrary, and if you hose a trade, you're done.
Now I read that people with 5K in a capital account get 1000 share leverage? Suppose you are trading a $50 stock. That is $50,000 notional value. And you have 4-5 positions open? That is $250,000 notional value. And I've seen people with larger capital account trading 10k share blocks?
But again, based upon the research I've been doing so far. You need to get at least a $0.15 jump on the share price. Less if you can good fills on your limit orders. But if you're getting good fills on your limit orders, chances are you're probably betting the wrong way. Does that mean I'm going to take losing 1/8 round trip on a trade? Calculating for slippage, probably. If I take less, great.
The strategy I'm taking is taking positions on the longer day trend, and building strength on the market pullbacks. Reversing positions when the longer trend disappears. So for the scalpers out there, our strategies are diametrically opposed. You're going for high percentage, low margin wins. (e.g. $0.04-0.05 on 70%) I'm going for low-percentage, very high payout wins. (e.g. blended $0.45 on 30%). Can we both make money? Depends on controlling the losses. I personally am not going to compete against the market maker that knows the order flow. I'd rather bet the trend which the market maker is trying to fade, because even he can't fade it forever. At least not with companies, like GE, IBM, AMGN, and PFE.
If you're a day trader, you're a short term speculator. This is a high-risk, high-reward type of a business. And in these endeavors, most people don't make it. Am I going to make it? Well that depends of my discipline, my intelligence, and my ability. I think so.
Anyways, flame me if you want. I don't care.
Although I've never day traded before, I have been heavily invested in financial markets for close to ten years.
If you are getting into the business of proprietary trading, you need to think of yourself as your own company. If you want a job, go work for someone else. As for myself, even working at a hedge fund or proprietary desk at a larger investment bank. You are more of an order taker than making trading decisions.
Make no doubts about it, trading within a day window will be difficult. Technical signals are useless in the first hour of trading if the market gaps up or down. If you're like me, you have a $4 ticket round trip, $.03 commision round trip, $.08 spread to cover round trip, and $.02-.04 slippage. The larger institional houses have a better deal for traders because (1) they're usually the market maker, (2) get to front run the order flow, (3) get the analyst news ahead of time, and (4) commisions are just ECN fees. However, the payout is completely arbitrary, and if you hose a trade, you're done.
Now I read that people with 5K in a capital account get 1000 share leverage? Suppose you are trading a $50 stock. That is $50,000 notional value. And you have 4-5 positions open? That is $250,000 notional value. And I've seen people with larger capital account trading 10k share blocks?
But again, based upon the research I've been doing so far. You need to get at least a $0.15 jump on the share price. Less if you can good fills on your limit orders. But if you're getting good fills on your limit orders, chances are you're probably betting the wrong way. Does that mean I'm going to take losing 1/8 round trip on a trade? Calculating for slippage, probably. If I take less, great.
The strategy I'm taking is taking positions on the longer day trend, and building strength on the market pullbacks. Reversing positions when the longer trend disappears. So for the scalpers out there, our strategies are diametrically opposed. You're going for high percentage, low margin wins. (e.g. $0.04-0.05 on 70%) I'm going for low-percentage, very high payout wins. (e.g. blended $0.45 on 30%). Can we both make money? Depends on controlling the losses. I personally am not going to compete against the market maker that knows the order flow. I'd rather bet the trend which the market maker is trying to fade, because even he can't fade it forever. At least not with companies, like GE, IBM, AMGN, and PFE.
If you're a day trader, you're a short term speculator. This is a high-risk, high-reward type of a business. And in these endeavors, most people don't make it. Am I going to make it? Well that depends of my discipline, my intelligence, and my ability. I think so.
Anyways, flame me if you want. I don't care.
interesting... sounds like you know what your getting yourself into.. good luck
seems like you have it together, have realistic expectations, have done your homework, are determined and will work hard to be successful. my advice is to seek out a mentor who consistently makes money (everyday) and learn his techniques and how to copy them- this will put you on the road to being profitable much quicker- but make sure the guy will work alongside you and talk openly about his strategies, monitor your progress and offer advice. Also seek a firm with competitive rates and alot to offer. . And since this is your first post, I will also tell you that there are many pikers and idiots on this site and a select few who know their shit. Good luck with your trading.
Quote from momotrdr:
Merco-
You can start improving your trading by removing bullshit statements like these from your daily lingo.....
>>....Let's just be clear that NO ONE is doing that well right now,....<<<
If you feel compelled to dupe yourself into truly believing that, then your road ahead to profitability is going to be quite a *ucking long one.
-momo
Dude,
I'm sorry that I am being realistic that it is not 1999 anymore (or even summer 2002 for that matter). Maybe you are freaking blind, but the last few months have been crap. Apparently the recent rounds of firing at the prop firms did not tip you off. Within our group, people have been doing worse. Some even took several months off because they predicted that the war situation would make markets like this.
I do not understand why you consider what you said advice.
I think all he was trying to say is that don't use it as an excuse. No it is not 1999, but people are still making a lot of money right now. It is just that it is not easy, no longer can a monkey make a grand a day....but although market conditions have gotten worse and worse over the last year......you can still make a decent living at trading.