Typically now I think its around $5,000 on up (although it might be possible to negotiate $3,000 absolute minimum, although probably not if you are new to trading).
Worldco R.I.P. 1993-2003 ?
- Thread starter bmwstox
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Typically now I think its around $5,000 on up (although it might be possible to negotiate $3,000 absolute minimum, although probably not if you are new to trading).
I am somewhat confused now. These days, if I have to put up $5k at a proprietary firm, from which loses are taken, is the "only" advantage proprietary over professional firms is the lower cost of entry?(most prof firms require at least 10k.) Also, with the requirement now to put up your own money, has the payout ratio gone up to justify the greater risk to the trader, or has the payout stayed the same ?
It seems to me that the disctinction between prop and prof firms are beginning to fade...
nitro
Quote from nitro:
I am somewhat confused now. These days, if I have to put up $5k at a proprietary firm, from which loses are taken, is the "only" advantage proprietary over professional firms is the lower cost of entry?(most prof firms require at least 10k.) Also, with the requirement now to put up your own money, has the payout ratio gone up to justify the greater risk to the trader, or has the payout stayed the same ?
It seems to me that the disctinction between prop and prof firms are beginning to fade...
nitro
Nitro,
I was at Worldco for about a year and I would say the advantages are thus:
1. Leverage, or "lower cost of entry" as you put it. Even if you have to put up $5,000, the amount of buying power you get is quite a bit greater than you would get as a retail trader. At my zenith I was trading 10 positions of 1000 shares or roughly $1,000,000 in buying power (assuming $100 stock maximum).
2. Knowledge-sharing. There's no training as such as Worldco but you do learn a lot just being around other traders. You talk to the guys, bounce ideas off one another, find out what works and what doesn't. Saves a lot of painful trial and error.
3. Motivation. This is just a personal reason but it made me more motivated to trade being at a prop firm. I had to get up early, hop on the ferry and ride to work with all the other Wall Street folks. I'm not putting down people who work at home at all, but for me it was important to get dressed and go into the office.
The cons for me were:
1. No training. I know there are sound business reasons for not having training but I can't help thinking that it would improve overall trader performance to have regular training and seminars. If training boosted company profits just a percent or two, it would probably pay for itself.
2. Management communication. I found out too late that management really only looks at a trader's commissions to determine profitibility (yes, yes, I know, that should have been obvious). It would have been nice to know up front that I was expected to generate $2,000 per month minimum in commissions. Instead I was told I was several grand behind that a year into it and asked to put up capital. Again, not arguing with the concept but the communication of same.
I'm sure there are few more but those were the big ones.
Sardo,
Thanks for the elucidation.
Of all the pros, you listed, the only one I can take seriously is the fact that you get serious buying power. The only other one that I was sort of waving my head back and forth about in your pro section is that you are in contact with other traders - I can believe that this is a real benefit. Even on this board you hear of traders that were struggling, went to a prop firm, and then blossomed.
Finally, my one of my questions was not answered - has the payout ratio gone up in relation to those times when there was no "down payment" required?
nitro
if anybody really works there, please post:
1. Payout ratio for new traders
2. Holdbacks
3. initial buying power given to new traders
Thanks !
1. Payout ratio for new traders
2. Holdbacks
3. initial buying power given to new traders
Thanks !
If any of you ex worldco or worldco traders are looking for a better deal....just shoot me a PM and we can chat...
Cheers
Cheers
)Payout numbers at wldc are unimportant trader to trader b/c once you get to the point where you are making money you can basically get the payout you want. To 95%+. That's not where the firm makes their money.
2)Holdbacks 15% and down from there.
3)Numbers situation all around (commiss., payout, holdback, technology, ....) are hard to beat, but the downside is that it's a low class operation, simply put.
It's a bottom-line deal with them and if you make them money you can typically get what you want, though they can make it a real pain in the ass to get anything done.
And what the hell is up with the K-1's taking 'til now to get done???
The traders for the most part are a good bunch.
Nice market today.
2)Holdbacks 15% and down from there.
3)Numbers situation all around (commiss., payout, holdback, technology, ....) are hard to beat, but the downside is that it's a low class operation, simply put.
It's a bottom-line deal with them and if you make them money you can typically get what you want, though they can make it a real pain in the ass to get anything done.
And what the hell is up with the K-1's taking 'til now to get done???
The traders for the most part are a good bunch.
Nice market today.
isn't there some initial level of retained profits you have to hit before they will give you the first check ?