Worldco LLC

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But realize this...after you are making $$ with that firm, you have to leave that money in (at least a percentage of it), so you actually do have money at risk. You do split profits (which is like paying the firm back exponentially for letting yo in), and those who "don't make it" (most), aren't there anymore. There is nothing wrong with that system.
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Don, with all due respect, this is a general assumption that is not valid. The firms that shortee was referring to (Schonfeld, ETG) only restrict capital with true novices. But if you're a market veteran, and you strike a deal with one of these firms, they will not put these golden handcuffs on you. Therefore, as shortee pointed out, the success rate of the traders at these firms is much higher because of the quality and caliber of traders they choose to recruit. However, if they take traders out of the overflowing pool of maybe's and has-beens, they place the handcuffs, and rightfully so. But if you're a veteran, you can strike a very attractive deal at such a large scale that makes sharing the profits with the house extremely logical and justifiable.

I would much rather keep 80% of the profits generated off of $75m in buying power versus keeping 100% of the profits generated off of $3m.

Pej
 
First of all, I don't believe there is a good way to screen for good traders from those that never done it before. Good traders can come from ALL backgrounds and I have never seen any correlation of any qualifications to the actual P&L. Degrees, background in finance, none of this make you a successful trader.

At Worldco we offer a much higher payout than Schonfeld AND we require little to no starting up capital. AND we give everyone a fair chance.

As far as training is concerned, there is no hand holding, you can't create good traders by education, the only way you can create good traders is to expose them with successful trading styles and you hope that he/she eventually connects with one of them. You can give a lot of tips and insights but every trader who ever became successful did it all by himself, as the actual execution is something you can't teach, and it is the most important aspect of trading.

As for capital, let's just say that you can trade as big here at Worldco as anywhere else, I mean, we would be stupid to not let you go as big as you want to if you are making money.

If you are a profitable trader you will make more money at Worldco than Schonfeld period, the difference of the payout is too big to overcome.
 
Originally posted by Hitman


If you are a profitable trader you will make more money at Worldco than Schonfeld period, the difference of the payout is too big to overcome.
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"And if you are a profitable trader," you will make more money paying $9.95 for 10,000 shares from the comfort of your home and keep 100% of your money :)
 
It will take awful lot of time for someone to be able to build up an account large enough for a living trading by themselve. Prop firms greatly speed up the process with very little risk on the line.

If you are a new trader, even if your learning curve is a little less painful at Schonfeld than Worldco due to superior training and whatnot (which is highly debatable), with the much higher payout at Worldco you will be way ahead after the first 18 months (let's face it, if you can't make it any progress whatsoever in that much time you probably need to reconsider).

Trading from home is simply not an option for most people, if you are starting out you need a prop firm to take those hits for you while you are learning.
 
Originally posted by Hitman


Trading from home is simply not an option for most people, if you are starting out you need a prop firm to take those hits for you while you are learning.
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Just to make sure that no one makes a mistake about it. Prop firm does not take the hit. You do. It comes out of your future earnings. And with outrageous commissions and not being able to freely trade any market you want, you definitely pay for it. In fact, you pay a lot more than it looks like initially.

Now, if you are looking for insurance against being a losing trader it's something else. But for profitable traders, trading from home with low commissions and 100% payout is the way to go. And this is what I was referring to :)

So I guess if you do not have 25K to your name, then you have to pay for it in other ways. But make sure you do not settle with a broker who tells you that you may not trade a certain market (such as Nasdaq) because "you" are not good enough. If you are good enough to press the buy or sell button for one market, then in my book, you are good enough to do it in the other market as well.

Trade Smart!
 
Hitman, you bring up some interesting points. However when it comes to training I believe that someone new to the trading World would be far better off by interviewing with companies such as Schonfeld and First New York securities and see what their training programs are all about before jumping into firms which basically will take anyone off the street as long as they have some capital. Hitman your style of trading which is mostly scalping may not be appropriate at the above mentioned firms. Not to say anything is wrong with your style. Hey it's apparent that your very successful with this style but these companies may find it totally unacceptable. Do they have the correct method of trading who knows but it might enlighten you or anyone thinking about trading for a career to at least talk to companies such as the two examples above and find out for yourselves. You might discover that there are people trading at these companies making millions who don't scalp. They may do something unheard of like doing enormous amounts of research into the companies they are trading as well as holding positions for a few days or weeks. All I'm saying is that in todays market we must keep an open mind and take advantage of learning and exploring all opportunities that are available and then make a decision based on all the information that one researched thoroughly. I guess it's sort of like having all the information at your disposal so you can make an educated trade.
 
the only people doing an amazing amount of research at these firms are the ones that are about to become ex-traders. most of the traders at the firms you mentioned are "scalpers", although that term includes a wide variety of styles these days.
 
Always interesting when we get to the "where to trade" discussions. Believe it or not, I actually agree with Tony (and one other post). 100% payout is a must, low costs are a must, and use of capital is a must (you all know that you cannot make any money with only $25K in your account).

The training discussion begs a couple of comments. We try to train people about how to trade, not what to do on a minute - by-minute basis.. Schonfeld has done a great job with the first year traders, and many have migrated to full payout firms. Since market conditions are always changing, we have found that by "adapting" to the markets with new strategies (or even "recycled" old ones) that our overall profitability has stayed ahead of most.

Good traders will do well anywhere, and all they need to consider is marekt access and cost. Newer traders should surround themselves with good traders...pretty simple in my mind.
 
The most important point for experienced traders is the firms willingness to build a trading desk for the trader, which includes equipment, assistants, research and data fees, allowances, etc...

Additionally, for the experienced trader, it's not an issue of 10 to 1 or 20 to 1, it's an issue of "is there going to be enough capital available to fully employ my model and scale it up according to market liquidity?" Then, it's a matter of building the desk to accommodate the model.
 
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