Hey Hitman. Congrats on becoming a desk manager. I have a few q's for you. Are you doing the interviews for your team or is it somebody else? Is Worldco asking for any kind of capital contribution? What kind of payout schedule does a new (inexperience) trader get? And is there a draw? Any info is appreciated. And don't pay much attention to these other posts railing against "commercialism". I think you're offering a great opportunity to a lot of potential traders who otherwise wouldn't get a chance.
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Worldco LLC
- Thread starter Hitman
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JWK:
Totally agree, but I find it absolutely vital to quickly separate the dreamers and believers. It is far better to let them now straight up what is offered, and if they flame me, then they are simply not interested.
I am looking for guys who really really really want it anyway. I am not looking for guys dancing on the sidelines, making up excuses, questioning my motives.
Either you want it or you don't, very simple, I talked to someone who has a H1 and ended up having to go with one of our competitor's (being one of the few firms that accepts a H1). The deal he got is far far worse than the one I would have gave him, and I told him that if you really really want it then go with your heart, although the odds are stacked further against him.
He took that offer in a heart beat, which is quite honestly a slave contract, he took it because he wants it so badly that having one chance, just one chance is all that matters to him.
Best of luck to him, for he is the type of guy I would want on my team in a heart beat if our policy regarding H1 ever changes.
Totally agree, but I find it absolutely vital to quickly separate the dreamers and believers. It is far better to let them now straight up what is offered, and if they flame me, then they are simply not interested.
I am looking for guys who really really really want it anyway. I am not looking for guys dancing on the sidelines, making up excuses, questioning my motives.
Either you want it or you don't, very simple, I talked to someone who has a H1 and ended up having to go with one of our competitor's (being one of the few firms that accepts a H1). The deal he got is far far worse than the one I would have gave him, and I told him that if you really really want it then go with your heart, although the odds are stacked further against him.
He took that offer in a heart beat, which is quite honestly a slave contract, he took it because he wants it so badly that having one chance, just one chance is all that matters to him.
Best of luck to him, for he is the type of guy I would want on my team in a heart beat if our policy regarding H1 ever changes.
***Are you doing the interviews for your team or is it somebody else?***
I do the presentation of showing my set-up, our software, my P&L (if you don't consider it small potato lol, not much to look at but hopefully it will change), my team, etc . . .
An actual recruiter will discuss the specific deal, but basically anyone I feel strong about, I would say the recruiter will do his best to accept the candidate. I mean, we are not THAT picky, trading is something you don't know whether you are meant for it until you try it, and we would like to give everyone a chance.
***Is Worldco asking for any kind of capital contribution?***
Yes and no. We always want some of your money to be on the line, simply we want you to have something to lose so you won't go crazy. The more capital you put up, the more shares you get to trade right off the bat, lower the commission / higher the payout you start with right off the bat.
If you start with no capital and no trading record, we can only give you 100 shares 2 positions for the first week or two. Chances are if you are new you probably would be losing money and you will get stuck with this for a while until your P&L before commissions is at least flat lining.
***What kind of payout schedule does a new (inexperience) trader get?***
If you have no capital whatsoever, 60-70%, however, in reality, by the time you actually get your first check (assuming you are totally inexperienced it will take at least 3-6 months), it will probably be in the 80's. The "low" payout you start with is more like so the management can reward you with something that will make you feel good about yourself when you accomplish certain feats, like going gross positive, net positive, etc . . .
I started with $1000 cap, $4 a ticket, 1.4 cents a share, 85% payout. Three and half month into the game I had 90% payout and my commissions were $1 a ticket, 1.1 cent a share. By my sixth month my payout was above 90%. This firm like all others make money off commissions, so the payout will not be a problem whatsoever.
Performance is everything. Promising traders struggling with bills early in their career often get special checks (that they don't have to pay back).
***And is there a draw?***
Can you explain the question?
I do the presentation of showing my set-up, our software, my P&L (if you don't consider it small potato lol, not much to look at but hopefully it will change), my team, etc . . .
An actual recruiter will discuss the specific deal, but basically anyone I feel strong about, I would say the recruiter will do his best to accept the candidate. I mean, we are not THAT picky, trading is something you don't know whether you are meant for it until you try it, and we would like to give everyone a chance.
***Is Worldco asking for any kind of capital contribution?***
Yes and no. We always want some of your money to be on the line, simply we want you to have something to lose so you won't go crazy. The more capital you put up, the more shares you get to trade right off the bat, lower the commission / higher the payout you start with right off the bat.
If you start with no capital and no trading record, we can only give you 100 shares 2 positions for the first week or two. Chances are if you are new you probably would be losing money and you will get stuck with this for a while until your P&L before commissions is at least flat lining.
***What kind of payout schedule does a new (inexperience) trader get?***
If you have no capital whatsoever, 60-70%, however, in reality, by the time you actually get your first check (assuming you are totally inexperienced it will take at least 3-6 months), it will probably be in the 80's. The "low" payout you start with is more like so the management can reward you with something that will make you feel good about yourself when you accomplish certain feats, like going gross positive, net positive, etc . . .
I started with $1000 cap, $4 a ticket, 1.4 cents a share, 85% payout. Three and half month into the game I had 90% payout and my commissions were $1 a ticket, 1.1 cent a share. By my sixth month my payout was above 90%. This firm like all others make money off commissions, so the payout will not be a problem whatsoever.
Performance is everything. Promising traders struggling with bills early in their career often get special checks (that they don't have to pay back).
***And is there a draw?***
Can you explain the question?
A draw is basically a salary or advance on profits given to a trader...
1. What is a ticket?
2. How much are bullets?
3. Are you allowed overnights?
4. What is the haircut charge?
5. What is the draw?
1. What is a ticket?
2. How much are bullets?
3. Are you allowed overnights?
4. What is the haircut charge?
5. What is the draw?
***1. What is a ticket?***
A ticket is a one time a day round trip charge on any stock you trade. For example if you have a $2 ticket cost, and you traded 5 different stocks today, it is $2x2x5 = $20.
That said, once you have some experience, the ticket charge is gone. And if you do sufficient volume cents per share can go as low as half a penny if you do say, 200K shares round trip a day.
2. How much are bullets?
You start out with $40 ticket 4 cent per share or $100 for a 1500 shares bullet (minimum). You can share bullets with other traders easily with our software. You can expect the ticket charge to disappear within a year or so (depend on your performance). The cent per share can go as low as 2.0, or $30 for the minimum sized bullet, if you are say a basket trader who does 20 a day.
Note:
Obviously, not everyone will be able to work that kind of size even when they do become experienced. One of the recruiters from a competitor firm e-mailed me a month ago and I told him my deal at the time (94%, 1 cent per share, 50 cents ticket charge, $60 a bullet), and he was like "I am going to check with other traders came from your firm to verify this". Obviously he knew there is no way he can beat what I have, since I am not that big of a trader in term of size (I average 30K shares a day round trip). The truth is, many firms advertise the rate they give to their top ten traders, and you may never ever see that rate.
So in addition to my "lowest commissions", I also included a more realistic projection, after you have been with the firm for say 18 months (assuming you start with no capital, no experience), is more like 1 cent a share (no ticket charge), $50 for the minimum 1500 shares bullet, 95% payout.
How quickly you can acquire the above deal depends on your performance and/or previous experience. If you are a quality trader with some capital it is very possible to start off the game with something close to above. If you are an exceptional rookie you will get that rate a lot faster. If you are not making money then you probably never will see that rate.
And there is plan to remove the minimum size for a bullet.
***3. Are you allowed overnights?***
If you have capital in your account, absolutely.
***4. What is the haircut charge?***
With the exception of SEC fees, none. As much as I love our firm, if you trade Nasdaq, it is better to look for a firm that specializes in it. Worldco like many other NYSE firms (you know what I am referring to) are expanding into Nasdaq, I expect us to eventually have strong Nasdaq support, but right now, the infrastructure is not there, and the fact that we do not self-clear Nasdaq means the commission rate for Nasdaq traders at our firm will never be as low as our NYSE counterpart.
***5. What is the draw?***
We are not running a charity. That said, I have seen the management catering to the need of many new traders facing dire financial situations, with commission rebates that they don't have to pay back. One of my closest friend at work got $1000 every month during the final stretch of him turning positive. The firm is VERY reasonable, and of course, there is no guarantee on things like this, we most definitely don't want to set a standard when it comes to charity checks.
A ticket is a one time a day round trip charge on any stock you trade. For example if you have a $2 ticket cost, and you traded 5 different stocks today, it is $2x2x5 = $20.
That said, once you have some experience, the ticket charge is gone. And if you do sufficient volume cents per share can go as low as half a penny if you do say, 200K shares round trip a day.
2. How much are bullets?
You start out with $40 ticket 4 cent per share or $100 for a 1500 shares bullet (minimum). You can share bullets with other traders easily with our software. You can expect the ticket charge to disappear within a year or so (depend on your performance). The cent per share can go as low as 2.0, or $30 for the minimum sized bullet, if you are say a basket trader who does 20 a day.
Note:
Obviously, not everyone will be able to work that kind of size even when they do become experienced. One of the recruiters from a competitor firm e-mailed me a month ago and I told him my deal at the time (94%, 1 cent per share, 50 cents ticket charge, $60 a bullet), and he was like "I am going to check with other traders came from your firm to verify this". Obviously he knew there is no way he can beat what I have, since I am not that big of a trader in term of size (I average 30K shares a day round trip). The truth is, many firms advertise the rate they give to their top ten traders, and you may never ever see that rate.
So in addition to my "lowest commissions", I also included a more realistic projection, after you have been with the firm for say 18 months (assuming you start with no capital, no experience), is more like 1 cent a share (no ticket charge), $50 for the minimum 1500 shares bullet, 95% payout.
How quickly you can acquire the above deal depends on your performance and/or previous experience. If you are a quality trader with some capital it is very possible to start off the game with something close to above. If you are an exceptional rookie you will get that rate a lot faster. If you are not making money then you probably never will see that rate.
And there is plan to remove the minimum size for a bullet.
***3. Are you allowed overnights?***
If you have capital in your account, absolutely.
***4. What is the haircut charge?***
With the exception of SEC fees, none. As much as I love our firm, if you trade Nasdaq, it is better to look for a firm that specializes in it. Worldco like many other NYSE firms (you know what I am referring to) are expanding into Nasdaq, I expect us to eventually have strong Nasdaq support, but right now, the infrastructure is not there, and the fact that we do not self-clear Nasdaq means the commission rate for Nasdaq traders at our firm will never be as low as our NYSE counterpart.
***5. What is the draw?***
We are not running a charity. That said, I have seen the management catering to the need of many new traders facing dire financial situations, with commission rebates that they don't have to pay back. One of my closest friend at work got $1000 every month during the final stretch of him turning positive. The firm is VERY reasonable, and of course, there is no guarantee on things like this, we most definitely don't want to set a standard when it comes to charity checks.
Training is one of the most overhyped subject in this business. Every single firm claims that they will seat you next to the biggest traders, that they will run seminars, that they will teach you how to make money . . .
The truth is, traders that trade, don't teach, and the seminars you get from those firms are about as useful as seminars you get anywhere else. The biggest traders do not teach, and even when they do, they either just pass you a few tips (that can be very useful of course) or a few calls (50/50 of course).
I don't even try to claim that our firm provides an awesome training program, because trading has been and always will be a game of every men for himself. Anyone who is trying to tell you otherwise, is dead wrong. When it comes down to it, every single trading strategy is VERY simple, the actual execution is what matters, and you CAN NOT teach execution.
That said, what I CAN assure you is, if any one on my team asks me a question about anything, they will get the honest answer. It may not be the right answer, for I do not know everything and am not afraid to admit so, but it will be everything I know. I will keep ZERO secret from them, on any given day they can see my P&L, can ask me why I took a trade (good or bad), can ask me to go over their trades with them. I give the best I have, and it will get better as my own trading improves.
In addition I am working on a strategy guide with every single trick in my bag (everything from how I set my stops to what looks like a good entry to me on the chart, and no it ain't triangles/flags/double bottoms I look for), and I plan to have everyone on my team to read it (and add their two cents based on their experience). Once my paper work is done, there will be team meetings etc . . . And last but not least, as they trade with me longer, they will respect my morning calls more.
In the end however, when the bell rings, it is still every man for himself. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. It is indeed possible to learn some new tricks, but whether you can use it in your own trading is a totally different story.
The truth is, traders that trade, don't teach, and the seminars you get from those firms are about as useful as seminars you get anywhere else. The biggest traders do not teach, and even when they do, they either just pass you a few tips (that can be very useful of course) or a few calls (50/50 of course).
I don't even try to claim that our firm provides an awesome training program, because trading has been and always will be a game of every men for himself. Anyone who is trying to tell you otherwise, is dead wrong. When it comes down to it, every single trading strategy is VERY simple, the actual execution is what matters, and you CAN NOT teach execution.
That said, what I CAN assure you is, if any one on my team asks me a question about anything, they will get the honest answer. It may not be the right answer, for I do not know everything and am not afraid to admit so, but it will be everything I know. I will keep ZERO secret from them, on any given day they can see my P&L, can ask me why I took a trade (good or bad), can ask me to go over their trades with them. I give the best I have, and it will get better as my own trading improves.
In addition I am working on a strategy guide with every single trick in my bag (everything from how I set my stops to what looks like a good entry to me on the chart, and no it ain't triangles/flags/double bottoms I look for), and I plan to have everyone on my team to read it (and add their two cents based on their experience). Once my paper work is done, there will be team meetings etc . . . And last but not least, as they trade with me longer, they will respect my morning calls more.
In the end however, when the bell rings, it is still every man for himself. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. It is indeed possible to learn some new tricks, but whether you can use it in your own trading is a totally different story.
Thank you Hitman for the insight...
Worldco obviously charges 30-50% more than echotrade's or bright's rates, EXCEPT for the fact that they will take you with very little or no equity. I respect the fact that worldco gives traders who have little or zero cash a chance and they deserve to be paid for it.
I have to say that if you are a new trader and can overcome those fees/tickets/and sub 100% payout you are very lucky.
My hat is off to you Hitman for being able to do it. I think you have done great as a new trader and everyone on the board probably agrees.
As far as charging money for training as bright and echotrade as both do (and both have great substance AND ARE TAUGHT BY REAL TRADERS )- do not think for a second that your ticket charges, bullet fees, and rates above a penny do not cover that $1000 and more very quickly.
I think that new traders just have to make sure that they are not paying TOO MUCH for the opportunity. Worldco reminds me of those credit cards that they give out to people with bad credit - Charge enormous yearly fee and outrageous interest - but hey, the guy has a credit card!
Worldco obviously charges 30-50% more than echotrade's or bright's rates, EXCEPT for the fact that they will take you with very little or no equity. I respect the fact that worldco gives traders who have little or zero cash a chance and they deserve to be paid for it.
I have to say that if you are a new trader and can overcome those fees/tickets/and sub 100% payout you are very lucky.
My hat is off to you Hitman for being able to do it. I think you have done great as a new trader and everyone on the board probably agrees.
As far as charging money for training as bright and echotrade as both do (and both have great substance AND ARE TAUGHT BY REAL TRADERS )- do not think for a second that your ticket charges, bullet fees, and rates above a penny do not cover that $1000 and more very quickly.
I think that new traders just have to make sure that they are not paying TOO MUCH for the opportunity. Worldco reminds me of those credit cards that they give out to people with bad credit - Charge enormous yearly fee and outrageous interest - but hey, the guy has a credit card!
Even with those $1000 seminars, I dare you say your success rates are better than ours (please no "after the first year the percentage is xxx%", hell the first year is EVERYTHING).
It is totally unfair to ask us to give out the same rate someone who start at another firm with 25K capital would enjoy, we are taking a chance, as there have been traders who left us with five digit deficits and we have to swallow it.
Talk is cheap, I talked about my rates with guys from Echo and Bright and I think my current rates easily matchs up against people trading 1.5x - 2.0x my size. Heck I even e-mailed someone on this board before and he could not beat my rate given the size I trade. He dodged the bullet again and came up with a lame excuse that he will talk to some of his traders who came from Worldco (and before you ask why, we got some of their traders too, it is business) to verify if what I said is true.
I gave specific numbers, and it is unfair to say that Worldco loses to anyone in rates, unless you come up with specific numbers. Yes, you start off with higher commissions, but that's a given since little of your own capital is on the line, and you will still be trading when your capital is gone.
I had 20K in my account before, and I could trade 3000 shares 16 positions. Once you become experienced, Worldco will destory anyone in rates. I welcome anyone e-mail me their trading size, commission rate, then bring a copy of their P&L statement to our firm for an interview, if you are as good as advertised, we will beat ANY offer from ANY competitor at ANY level.
By the way, for anyone starting out on my team I will offer something substantially more competitive than what I was given when I started (currently I am thinking $2 ticket 1.2 cent a share 75% payout, although of course it is tweaked based on individual situation and I still have to talk to the boss to approve it), and after a year, you will have the best rates in listed trading.
It is totally unfair to ask us to give out the same rate someone who start at another firm with 25K capital would enjoy, we are taking a chance, as there have been traders who left us with five digit deficits and we have to swallow it.
Talk is cheap, I talked about my rates with guys from Echo and Bright and I think my current rates easily matchs up against people trading 1.5x - 2.0x my size. Heck I even e-mailed someone on this board before and he could not beat my rate given the size I trade. He dodged the bullet again and came up with a lame excuse that he will talk to some of his traders who came from Worldco (and before you ask why, we got some of their traders too, it is business) to verify if what I said is true.
I gave specific numbers, and it is unfair to say that Worldco loses to anyone in rates, unless you come up with specific numbers. Yes, you start off with higher commissions, but that's a given since little of your own capital is on the line, and you will still be trading when your capital is gone.
I had 20K in my account before, and I could trade 3000 shares 16 positions. Once you become experienced, Worldco will destory anyone in rates. I welcome anyone e-mail me their trading size, commission rate, then bring a copy of their P&L statement to our firm for an interview, if you are as good as advertised, we will beat ANY offer from ANY competitor at ANY level.
By the way, for anyone starting out on my team I will offer something substantially more competitive than what I was given when I started (currently I am thinking $2 ticket 1.2 cent a share 75% payout, although of course it is tweaked based on individual situation and I still have to talk to the boss to approve it), and after a year, you will have the best rates in listed trading.
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