World Governments should just stop stimulus programs - they only make matters WORSE.

Quote from nutmeg:

My answers: Sadly - I do not own a single thing! I cannot even throw out the shirt on my back without coming under some law that governs how we throw out trash. If I died while writing this post...my beneficiaries could not even have the shirt on my back without some sort of probate or me being in some sort of trust (also under some laws). I couldn't die and leave things without a review by some court and possibly some sort tax being levied against the stuff I left behind.
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Good point.

I'd add that we can't even do anything without asking permission. Somewhere there is an agency whose permission you need.

Wake up tomorrow and think I'll open a vegetable stand, better check with someone. Ride a bike, better check and see if you need a helmet.

If you walk around a city and admire historical buildings, ha, every building is "illegal" and could never be built again.

This life is like being an 8 year old and asking your parents if you can do something.
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Good points too!

I like your analogy - like being an 8 year old!

That is why this life is a lot like the movie the Matrix! People go through life and never really examine things. I am sure that another poster means well in that they don't think the elite have the intelligence to pull of their charade...but, they are doing it! I will assume you are younger than 77 years old. If you are, then here is what you have "known" all of your life...

1.) You don't own anything.
2.) You can't do most things without getting permission from somebody.
3.) *And here is a REAL kicker - money=debt If you are younger than 77 you have not been alive when money actually meant something like gold or silver. We have been taught ALL of our lives that money is what the government tells us is money and up until this point the government is telling us to have "faith" in them!
4.) If you are big and stupid - you "can't fail" - too big to fail!
5.) If you are small and a saver - you need to pay for the big and stupid
6.) YOU must follow the rules and laws! Governments enforce laws...unless the gov't doesn't like the law - then it can ignore it - think immigration, fraud laws not applied to banks, going to war without Congress's consent, SEC enforcing laws...except in the case of Madoff, etc.

-gastropod
 
This solar deal that has been trumpeted shows all the reasons why the stimulus package failed. They are touting the creation of ~4000 jobs with $2B. Meaning it costs $500k per job created. By comparison, a great deal of the jobs lost in the past few years were $50K or less jobs in tight margin private industries. Meaning, it took ~ 2X pay to sustain the job. So, this money had the potential to create over 19000 private sector jobs. The solar deal was clearly a waste of job creating potential.

The second problem is that these two companies clearly do not have the best potential solar technology. Granted they might be further along in manufacturing, and be the only companies out there who can build large solar plants. But in terms of efficiency and cost per watt potential of their technology, they are not the leaders.

So, what will happen, as always, is the US supports large companies without the best technology, while overseas countries will take the risk of supporting smaller companies with more advanced tech. Then, once the foreign companies get their tech up to speed, they will produce better products and corner the market for solar tech. The US will then be forced to subsidize. Unless, of course, an independent US solar company happens to have it's procduct make it to market.

There are over 2000 nanotech companies in the world, with manybeing focused on solar. Abengoa and Abound never come up as havng the most state of the art technology in articles I read.
 
Quote from endsongs:

This solar deal that has been trumpeted shows all the reasons why the stimulus package failed. They are touting the creation of ~4000 jobs with $2B. Meaning it costs $500k per job created. By comparison, a great deal of the jobs lost in the past few years were $50K or less jobs in tight margin private industries. Meaning, it took ~ 2X pay to sustain the job. So, this money had the potential to create over 19000 private sector jobs. The solar deal was clearly a waste of job creating potential.

The second problem is that these two companies clearly do not have the best potential solar technology. Granted they might be further along in manufacturing, and be the only companies out there who can build large solar plants. But in terms of efficiency and cost per watt potential of their technology, they are not the leaders.

So, what will happen, as always, is the US supports large companies without the best technology, while overseas countries will take the risk of supporting smaller companies with more advanced tech. Then, once the foreign companies get their tech up to speed, they will produce better products and corner the market for solar tech. The US will then be forced to subsidize. Unless, of course, an independent US solar company happens to have it's procduct make it to market.

There are over 2000 nanotech companies in the world, with manybeing focused on solar. Abengoa and Abound never come up as havng the most state of the art technology in articles I read.
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As a current bear, I now encourage the U.S. to waste 3 trillion dollars on unproductive jobs, and on making the air and water 2% cleaner.
 
Quote from wilburbear:

As a current bear, I now encourage the U.S. to waste 3 trillion dollars on unproductive jobs, and on making the air and water 2% cleaner.
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Damn straight. Let's <del>tax</del> Cap & Trade the coal industry out of existence then spend trillions of dollars getting electric cars on the road. No new nuclear plants, of course. We can do the same thing for electricity that ethanol did for food prices, except on a much more grand scale. By the time we are done, power costs will be so high that even really inefficient sources of electrons will be feasible. . . and thus we roll out the green.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna be rolling in the green as the economy pukes. :) Voters vote for politicians who mess up the economy for short sighted gains means more money for me and a #@&^ed up future for the idiots. It's a win-win.
 
They had this ad for lightbulbs the other day, they last 10 times longer and are 10 times more efficient. I don't see anyone subsidizing them.... but there is billions for the pump and dump equivalent of ethanol, cotton subsidies, and any number of tax free proposals for wind energy in not just the US, but globally.
 
Quote from psytrade:

They had this ad for lightbulbs the other day, they last 10 times longer and are 10 times more efficient. I don't see anyone subsidizing them.... but there is billions for the pump and dump equivalent of ethanol, cotton subsidies, and any number of tax free proposals for wind energy in not just the US, but globally.
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That's because there is no light bulb lobbyists and you know that.
 
Quote from wilburbear:

Like trying to prop up the Euro - they only gave hedge funds a temporary rally to short into.
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Does that remind anyone of the short selling ban in late 2008? It caused just enough demand for the large interests to offload the last of their longs in a weak market. (and at the cost of robbing the support provided to prices by timely short covering lower down)
 
Right now there is only one single nation that still believes that more spending will save the world. Every other economy is tightening the belt and understood that the times of exuberance are over. Must be very painful for most Americans to have to learn that an own home after all is not a God-given right, nor are two cars and a pool.

What bothers me is that Obama has the guts to go out at the G20 and tries to convince other nations that saving is the wrong medicine. Laughable. It sure won't push up equity markets but it will be the ONLY way forward to not burden future generations with baggage they will never be able to get rid off.
 
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