WizeTrade comments
- Thread starter traderich
- Start date
That was a very informative and helpful thread!
There were several things mentioned in the thread that made a lot of sense to me.
My biggest concern as I 'use' (I won't do trades solely on green or red indicators) wizetrade this week is the reference to disappearing crosses of the green and red lines.
The training indicates to make sure you have a fresh cross, a good angle (2:00 or higher), AND good separation of the red and green lines. I wonder if the good separation is to avoid the pitfall of getting into or out of a position without the 'trend' established well enough. It sounds like others have gotten snagged on that important point. Sounds like if you do not wait for the lines to separate (i.e. form a stable movement) you could get burned by a quick reversal or new cross of the green and red lines. Granted, even with a wide separation, a big shot could unload 10 million shares and cause the stock to tank in a few minutes. I saw it happen with EP about a year and half ago. Actually, its not that unusual. Happens every day. Just hope your stock is not the one, or that you are shorting it! like TASR did. Of course, TASR gapped down on the opening. Might be a different scenario. EP did it during the day.
I will be videotaping my actual computer screen with the wizetrade as it generates and updates the red and green lines. I consider this issue to be of utmost importance! If the software changes the past lines to generate a better picture of what actually happened, then I am not buying the software and will personally make it a point to picket sales conferences they have in Connecticut.
I have no problem with the fact that trends (up or down) can and do quickly reverse, as long as during the day when the crosses occur, the software leaves them there and doesn't remove them and alter the lines at the end of the day/week/month to paint a better picture of the past (if you know what I mean!)
I think Wizetrade (or another one that shows trends or technical data such as MACD's) would 'ASSIST' me in my trading.
Notice I stress ASSIST!... Believe me, I will be reviewing the financials as well as about 10 other things before I make my decision to go long or short. I think everyone has hit the nail on the head when they say Wizetrade is trying to sell software only (not results) and are falsely painting a picture that ANYONE can make money in the stock market by using their easy to use software. Of course they would not sell as much if they said "Wizetrade can assist experienced stock traders who understand the stock market and have assets in excess of $15000. And, 80%-90% of people who buy the software either misuse the product, or have inadequate experience and knowledge about the stock market."
I honestly believe it should be used as just a trend indicator. In fact, I do not think you should use it to decide IF you buy a stock, but rather when to buy or sell a stock. I think if you buy or sell a stock with the hopes of getting in on a nice trend, you will get burned eventually, because trends can change very fast on you.
Most recently I bought BPUR at .54....at about 10am..watched it hit .68 or so..and as it dropped back tried to sell at .62, but missed it..and then sold off at .5914-.595. This was without Wizetrade or any other technical indicators. I consider doing this to be gambling and not investing.
I think that if I go into using Wizetrade or another trend analysis software with the attitude that it is only going to show me the current trend and use that as just a tool to help me maximize my gains and minimize my losses, I will be fine.
I have about $400,000 of buying power in my (2) brokerage accounts and have traded about $3,000,000 worth of stock in the past 3 years. I have picked some incredible winners. My only regret is that I bought just a little too soon on several of them and had to dollar cost average down to their bottom, and then sold WAY too soon as they skyrocketed.
There were several things mentioned in the thread that made a lot of sense to me.
My biggest concern as I 'use' (I won't do trades solely on green or red indicators) wizetrade this week is the reference to disappearing crosses of the green and red lines.
The training indicates to make sure you have a fresh cross, a good angle (2:00 or higher), AND good separation of the red and green lines. I wonder if the good separation is to avoid the pitfall of getting into or out of a position without the 'trend' established well enough. It sounds like others have gotten snagged on that important point. Sounds like if you do not wait for the lines to separate (i.e. form a stable movement) you could get burned by a quick reversal or new cross of the green and red lines. Granted, even with a wide separation, a big shot could unload 10 million shares and cause the stock to tank in a few minutes. I saw it happen with EP about a year and half ago. Actually, its not that unusual. Happens every day. Just hope your stock is not the one, or that you are shorting it! like TASR did. Of course, TASR gapped down on the opening. Might be a different scenario. EP did it during the day.
I will be videotaping my actual computer screen with the wizetrade as it generates and updates the red and green lines. I consider this issue to be of utmost importance! If the software changes the past lines to generate a better picture of what actually happened, then I am not buying the software and will personally make it a point to picket sales conferences they have in Connecticut.
I have no problem with the fact that trends (up or down) can and do quickly reverse, as long as during the day when the crosses occur, the software leaves them there and doesn't remove them and alter the lines at the end of the day/week/month to paint a better picture of the past (if you know what I mean!)
I think Wizetrade (or another one that shows trends or technical data such as MACD's) would 'ASSIST' me in my trading.
Notice I stress ASSIST!... Believe me, I will be reviewing the financials as well as about 10 other things before I make my decision to go long or short. I think everyone has hit the nail on the head when they say Wizetrade is trying to sell software only (not results) and are falsely painting a picture that ANYONE can make money in the stock market by using their easy to use software. Of course they would not sell as much if they said "Wizetrade can assist experienced stock traders who understand the stock market and have assets in excess of $15000. And, 80%-90% of people who buy the software either misuse the product, or have inadequate experience and knowledge about the stock market."
I honestly believe it should be used as just a trend indicator. In fact, I do not think you should use it to decide IF you buy a stock, but rather when to buy or sell a stock. I think if you buy or sell a stock with the hopes of getting in on a nice trend, you will get burned eventually, because trends can change very fast on you.
Most recently I bought BPUR at .54....at about 10am..watched it hit .68 or so..and as it dropped back tried to sell at .62, but missed it..and then sold off at .5914-.595. This was without Wizetrade or any other technical indicators. I consider doing this to be gambling and not investing.
I think that if I go into using Wizetrade or another trend analysis software with the attitude that it is only going to show me the current trend and use that as just a tool to help me maximize my gains and minimize my losses, I will be fine.
I have about $400,000 of buying power in my (2) brokerage accounts and have traded about $3,000,000 worth of stock in the past 3 years. I have picked some incredible winners. My only regret is that I bought just a little too soon on several of them and had to dollar cost average down to their bottom, and then sold WAY too soon as they skyrocketed.
If you're concerned about crosses and uncrosses then get your money back immediately because these happen all the time in their software. I watched it for about 2 hours on about 30 stocks and personally witnessed this on the 5 min timeframe at least a dozen times. Worse yet was that the cross and uncross often happened in less than a minute and some of the losses WOULD have been 20 to 30 cents. If you're scalping 1,000 shares per trade with this software you could lose more than its cost in less than one day. Their informercials show people taking trades based on the crosses, taking every trade that shows up. If you wait and see if the cross uncrosses you delay entry and of course then have to PAY UP to get in.
I may be wrong but I thought you had yet to go to the seminar. How would you know about the angle of cross and all these details? I went to their introductory seminar and they definitely don't discuss this stuff there because then traders wouldn't think their system was so 'easy' and their sales would plummet. I sense that you are trying to sell their software here. Hey, thats ok but just do so honestly and don't pretend to be a new trader. Any sophisticated REAL trader wouldn't consider WizeTrade.
That is exactly what it does. Of course at the end of the day when you look at the crosses it appears that any idiot could make money with it. That's the biggest part of their scam, they are not honest about how it works in REAL time.
The crosses and uncrosses happen in real time. One second it crosses and you would for example want to go long and 20 to 30 seconds up to 5 minutes later it uncrosses.
Maybe but why pay $3,600 for something so BASIC? WizeTrade is the most simple program you could ever buy for trading. You're better off using a free charting service online!
Trading with WizeTrade is a lot like gambling, LOL.
It isn't a trend analysis software, it uses different period linear regression periods. I am almost certain of that because I duplicated their crossovers at the time in about 15 mins of playing around. Most trend tools such as the ADX or TDI or some of the others take awhile to switch trends and are often very 'laggy'. Whenever trends change trading in the opposite direction of the previous trend can be very dangerous. The moves often fail as you will see if you watch WizeTrade live.
I suggest you get your $3,600 back unless you want a very expensive paperweight or coffee saucer. Better to use those AOL CD's for that anyway!
I have to laugh when you say you think I am working for Wizetrade. I will tell you this, after my experience with it, I will either be picketing every sales conference they have near me or I will be the next poster child for the rich slob that created the software!
I know about the F.A.S analysis because they briefly mentioned it in the intro, 1 1/2 hour sales pitch, and I called their customer support # with questions and the guy explained this to me, and I did talk with canyon00 on the phone the other day.
Not to seem conceited, but the concept does not seem complicated at all, and that is what makes me a non-believer actually.
I believe that having the motto like Buffet 'the best time to sell is never.' is flawed and the saying 'Its not TIMING the market, rather TIME IN the market that makes you money in the long run.' is not the best strategy (at least not now in the choppy market). Perhaps when we hit a strong bull market again like we did from 94-00, you can just buy and hold, but nowadays, more money can be made with effective timing of stock moves. I think sales of this product must soar during bear markets when folks lose money in the market and want to get it back.
Like I said before, I have some experience in the market. I am not saying I am some kind of guru. Heck, I am just now accepting the fact that technical analysis is worthwhile. I used to think that looking at past trends and support levels and resistance levels and so forth was a bunch of crap and had no bearing on where a stock would go from this time going forward. I used to think it was the same as someone who would say black is more likely to come out now on roulette because red came out 12 times in a row!
I think I will do well with understanding the linear regression analysis once I get into it. I have a BSME, and finishing a MBA. I did well with the math part of the engineering. 3rd order differential equations-no problem! partial derivatives-no problem,
probability and statistics-nooo problemo, LaPlace transforms, S domain and PID feedback control loops-tough as hell! Bode plots??? WTF!
I have 4 trading days to take it for a test run, and believe me, I will be testing it and even videotaping my monitor to watch how the red and green lines are developed in real time. As I said, I need to know that the old data is not being skewed.
Also, I am not looking to scalp stocks at all. I guess I would be considered a swing trader. I tend to buy stocks of companies that I consider worthwhile investments. I believe this is important, because if I didn't research the company, and/or thought the company was a POS, and I bought it on a green light and good F.A.S. and then earnings come out that suck and the stock gets cut in half, then WTF do I do??? My old style would be to buy more. Contrarian investing has done very well for me, but I start with the premise that I am buying stocks I like, period.
Thank you again for input. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to offer their personal experiences, thoughts, and viewpoints on this.
I know about the F.A.S analysis because they briefly mentioned it in the intro, 1 1/2 hour sales pitch, and I called their customer support # with questions and the guy explained this to me, and I did talk with canyon00 on the phone the other day.
Not to seem conceited, but the concept does not seem complicated at all, and that is what makes me a non-believer actually.
I believe that having the motto like Buffet 'the best time to sell is never.' is flawed and the saying 'Its not TIMING the market, rather TIME IN the market that makes you money in the long run.' is not the best strategy (at least not now in the choppy market). Perhaps when we hit a strong bull market again like we did from 94-00, you can just buy and hold, but nowadays, more money can be made with effective timing of stock moves. I think sales of this product must soar during bear markets when folks lose money in the market and want to get it back.
Like I said before, I have some experience in the market. I am not saying I am some kind of guru. Heck, I am just now accepting the fact that technical analysis is worthwhile. I used to think that looking at past trends and support levels and resistance levels and so forth was a bunch of crap and had no bearing on where a stock would go from this time going forward. I used to think it was the same as someone who would say black is more likely to come out now on roulette because red came out 12 times in a row!
I think I will do well with understanding the linear regression analysis once I get into it. I have a BSME, and finishing a MBA. I did well with the math part of the engineering. 3rd order differential equations-no problem! partial derivatives-no problem,
probability and statistics-nooo problemo, LaPlace transforms, S domain and PID feedback control loops-tough as hell! Bode plots??? WTF!
I have 4 trading days to take it for a test run, and believe me, I will be testing it and even videotaping my monitor to watch how the red and green lines are developed in real time. As I said, I need to know that the old data is not being skewed.
Also, I am not looking to scalp stocks at all. I guess I would be considered a swing trader. I tend to buy stocks of companies that I consider worthwhile investments. I believe this is important, because if I didn't research the company, and/or thought the company was a POS, and I bought it on a green light and good F.A.S. and then earnings come out that suck and the stock gets cut in half, then WTF do I do??? My old style would be to buy more. Contrarian investing has done very well for me, but I start with the premise that I am buying stocks I like, period.
Thank you again for input. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to offer their personal experiences, thoughts, and viewpoints on this.
Wow, I feel like I need to get a sign and stand outside of the hotel and warn attendees!!
It appears that the money-back guarantee is now only good until the day of the training class - in this case the 28th - 10 days.
What can I say about the presentation - as is always the case with these things - they make a compelling pitch. I became skeptical before it started however when I realized they weren't even opening the doors to allow you to be seated until after the market closed - why is that I wondered if you are touting a trading program?? Hmmm...
Anyway, needless to say I did not bite - I decided to do some due-dilligence work first - and thus I am here!
I did find it interesting that the presenter - Bob Moore (I believe), offered to "look at 5 stocks from the audience" I was the first chosen and asked to look at Safeco (SAFC). Of course the chart seemed pretty straight forward (since the market was closed). I would love to have seen it during market hours.
I saw a similar presentation (very sad to say) at a Peter Lowe Success Forum. The presenter was one of many on the agenda. This was at Key Arena - probably ten thousand attendees. The pitch was that there was "no risk - we won't even charge your card until after you attend the multi-day training session - coming soon to your area - then and only then will we charge your card for $995.00". There must have been at least 2,000 people who went down front to fill out a form (which included their credit-card info!) in order to pick up the (not WizeTrade) software. Wow - do the math on that one! And of course, "I only want to pass on what I've learned...." was the mantra. Yeah, me too for two million dollars!
As these guys are not licensed nor subject to disciplinary action or oversight by ANY regulatory agency, they can pretty-much say anything they want and there are no consequences (to them anyway).
I am a financial advisor and have been for about 14 years. I attended the seminar (sales pitch) this afternoon, as I like to investigate this sort of stuff so I can warn clients when they ask about them. If I made some of the claims made during these presentations, I would probably be having lunch with Martha!
Well, my take (which will be no surprise to those here I am sure) is that you can do as well or perhaps even better just buying good companies, PAYING ATTENTION TO THEM, have a strategy and a specific goal, exercise discipline, and stick to the plan. My clients are up 15% (typically) for 2004 (beating the S&P by about 3%) and we only bought 7 mutual funds (the exact same ones for all of them, albeit in different percentages of their portfolios depending on their objectives and risk tolerance). We did no trading other than the initial buys. We did the trades with no transaction costs, only a management fee. They are happy, I am happy. Two of my clients have variable annuities and they are up over 20% for '04. No brain damage, no stress. Just good ol' fashioned investing.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw in my two-cents. The software seems WAY overpriced for what it does, and for most people would probably prove to be EXTREMELY expensive at the end of the (trading) day. Glad I didn't see any clients there!
PLEASE - I did not post here to start a debate about the merits of active trading - I am certainly no expert in that area, I am sure many here could make a compelling case using their own experiences. I do financial planning and long-term investment management. If clients want to actively trade, I tell them they'd be happier working with somebody else!
By the way, there were only about 30 people in the room, and this was in the Seattle area - is that the normal size group for this sales presentation - or are people just smarter out here??
It appears that the money-back guarantee is now only good until the day of the training class - in this case the 28th - 10 days.
What can I say about the presentation - as is always the case with these things - they make a compelling pitch. I became skeptical before it started however when I realized they weren't even opening the doors to allow you to be seated until after the market closed - why is that I wondered if you are touting a trading program?? Hmmm...
Anyway, needless to say I did not bite - I decided to do some due-dilligence work first - and thus I am here!
I did find it interesting that the presenter - Bob Moore (I believe), offered to "look at 5 stocks from the audience" I was the first chosen and asked to look at Safeco (SAFC). Of course the chart seemed pretty straight forward (since the market was closed). I would love to have seen it during market hours.
I saw a similar presentation (very sad to say) at a Peter Lowe Success Forum. The presenter was one of many on the agenda. This was at Key Arena - probably ten thousand attendees. The pitch was that there was "no risk - we won't even charge your card until after you attend the multi-day training session - coming soon to your area - then and only then will we charge your card for $995.00". There must have been at least 2,000 people who went down front to fill out a form (which included their credit-card info!) in order to pick up the (not WizeTrade) software. Wow - do the math on that one! And of course, "I only want to pass on what I've learned...." was the mantra. Yeah, me too for two million dollars!
As these guys are not licensed nor subject to disciplinary action or oversight by ANY regulatory agency, they can pretty-much say anything they want and there are no consequences (to them anyway).
I am a financial advisor and have been for about 14 years. I attended the seminar (sales pitch) this afternoon, as I like to investigate this sort of stuff so I can warn clients when they ask about them. If I made some of the claims made during these presentations, I would probably be having lunch with Martha!
Well, my take (which will be no surprise to those here I am sure) is that you can do as well or perhaps even better just buying good companies, PAYING ATTENTION TO THEM, have a strategy and a specific goal, exercise discipline, and stick to the plan. My clients are up 15% (typically) for 2004 (beating the S&P by about 3%) and we only bought 7 mutual funds (the exact same ones for all of them, albeit in different percentages of their portfolios depending on their objectives and risk tolerance). We did no trading other than the initial buys. We did the trades with no transaction costs, only a management fee. They are happy, I am happy. Two of my clients have variable annuities and they are up over 20% for '04. No brain damage, no stress. Just good ol' fashioned investing.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw in my two-cents. The software seems WAY overpriced for what it does, and for most people would probably prove to be EXTREMELY expensive at the end of the (trading) day. Glad I didn't see any clients there!
PLEASE - I did not post here to start a debate about the merits of active trading - I am certainly no expert in that area, I am sure many here could make a compelling case using their own experiences. I do financial planning and long-term investment management. If clients want to actively trade, I tell them they'd be happier working with somebody else!
By the way, there were only about 30 people in the room, and this was in the Seattle area - is that the normal size group for this sales presentation - or are people just smarter out here??
Hello Guys,
I just want to mention something interesting. When you go to one of these presentations make sure you get the name of the presenter, go home and do a Google search on the guys name, will find as I did that the presenter is no trader, nor market specialist but a professional speaker which they have taught the lingo and he goes on with all mambo jambo.
I found this with 4xmade easy and this wizetrade software and two other presentation all use these professional speakers to lure the crowd.
I just want to mention something interesting. When you go to one of these presentations make sure you get the name of the presenter, go home and do a Google search on the guys name, will find as I did that the presenter is no trader, nor market specialist but a professional speaker which they have taught the lingo and he goes on with all mambo jambo.
I found this with 4xmade easy and this wizetrade software and two other presentation all use these professional speakers to lure the crowd.
well email,
I guess I did answer my own question. I guess I am denser than I thought!
I will be calling my credit card company today and informing them that I will not be paying the charge to my card because I will be officially returning the software on Sunday! holy schitt! I can't believe I actually was considering this POS.
Chalk it up to learning experience I guess. I feel really bad for the people I saw in there who are buying it and really have no clue. I guess we all need to take our lumps in life.
I guess I will have to get my picket sign out as I promised! It's funny how one of the presenters said 'don't you think if this didn't work, there would be a line of protestors outside this door right now!'. I guess when I try to picket the convention I will be escorted to the door and told I am trespassing and will be arrested if I do not leave.
I would just like to say this, thank you all very much for your feedback and especially the software review that is posted on this site.
And, If anyone wants to contact me regarding this, my email is RMLapham@sbcglobal.net. I would also talk to anyone on the phone about this. I guess I feel obligated somehow to help to the next person from making the same mistake I almost did.
I will be posting my evaluation on the software as soon as I hit the 30 posts on here.
I guess I did answer my own question. I guess I am denser than I thought!
I will be calling my credit card company today and informing them that I will not be paying the charge to my card because I will be officially returning the software on Sunday! holy schitt! I can't believe I actually was considering this POS.
Chalk it up to learning experience I guess. I feel really bad for the people I saw in there who are buying it and really have no clue. I guess we all need to take our lumps in life.
I guess I will have to get my picket sign out as I promised! It's funny how one of the presenters said 'don't you think if this didn't work, there would be a line of protestors outside this door right now!'. I guess when I try to picket the convention I will be escorted to the door and told I am trespassing and will be arrested if I do not leave.
I would just like to say this, thank you all very much for your feedback and especially the software review that is posted on this site.
And, If anyone wants to contact me regarding this, my email is RMLapham@sbcglobal.net. I would also talk to anyone on the phone about this. I guess I feel obligated somehow to help to the next person from making the same mistake I almost did.
I will be posting my evaluation on the software as soon as I hit the 30 posts on here.
Hmm....did you do this type of trade recently, or are you having flashbacks to 1999?
and yes, I still have nightmares about it!
I guess I can live with them because I did manage to hold on to enough shares before finally selling the last 5000 block and netting about $160,000 profit.
I can kick myself again, because most recently I sold off almost all of the 63000 shares of TWR I had bought in October for $1.21 and the stock is now at...well you can go see for yourself. I did manage to make about 25k, but could have made closer to 100k. Would have been a nice couple months work.
maybe you can give me a good stock tip! lol.
Best of luck to you.
I guess I can live with them because I did manage to hold on to enough shares before finally selling the last 5000 block and netting about $160,000 profit.
I can kick myself again, because most recently I sold off almost all of the 63000 shares of TWR I had bought in October for $1.21 and the stock is now at...well you can go see for yourself. I did manage to make about 25k, but could have made closer to 100k. Would have been a nice couple months work.
maybe you can give me a good stock tip! lol.
Best of luck to you.