Wiped first account after 6 years...
- Thread starter DarkHorse91
- Start date
Instead of focusing solely on technicals again, start from the other end of the trading art (which is no less important). Read "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman.
For a moment I wasn't sure if you had some moral issue with making a profit trading. Whenever you take money from the markets, it is generally because you are doing the opposite to someone else who is naive/gullible. Then I realized you were writing about your friend selling scam courses and training..
Name this scam artist. Then you might get some real advice on here. You will get good and bad advice in this thread and elsewhere. You need to get good at filtering out the bad advice. Even with a lot of hard work and serious investigation, as a day trader, it will most likely take at least five years before you are consistently profitable. Possibly ten or more. But if you are investor in a bull market with a little research there is no reason why you can't make 20% a year. Maybe if you get "lucky" you can research an idea for 12-18 months and come up with a profitable automated or semi-automated system. That's probably not a very common experience, and indeed there are no guarantees you'll ever be profitable.
I've made a living from trading (sole income) since 2008, but there are much better traders on here than me. So you never stop learning. This forum contains some gold nuggets if you dig deep enough in the archives.
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How are they a cancer to new traders? When I began trading 4 years ago more negativity from real experienced traders would have helped me develop realistic expectations, instead of all the positive trading vendor gimmicks and talk of the income of your dreams, etc.
Seriously, if you're not able to answer these questions yourself and you need to ask others to decide for you...
I highly recommend you stay away from trading but maybe you're just one of those people that's not suitable for trading.
Yet, if you ignore the above advice, find someone in your area to trade with in person so that he/she can see exactly what you're doing in your trading because there's a good chance you're doing many things wrong that has nothing to do with trade strategies.
You'll be surprise at how often people come to this forum and talk about their blowups without mentioning the real reasons or they really were clueless to the real reasons until someone had a chance to watch them in person while they prepare to trade.
Simply, successful trading involves a lot more than just a trade strategy.
ET Hook Up thread @ http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?forums/hook-up.28/
Make sure you post a message in the above thread and you specifically name your city location. Do the same at the forums of other resources you use such as a forum by your data vendor (e.g. eSignal, Tradestation, CQG, Ninjatrader).
I took a quick peek at your profile and it said you're 24. Also, you stated you've been at this trading since 2009. That implies you started trading when you were 18 years old or near that.
Something doesn't add up because its rare for an 18 year old to be involved in trading and those that are usually its just a serious hobby or part-time gig. Thus, they ain't trying to make a living at trading at that age in market conditions that basically involved the 2008 - 2010 global financial crisis. That's why I think you have not told the full story that involves things not related to your trading that's having a big impact on your trading. Its those things that someone in person will notice that someone online will not notice.
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Firstly thank you everyone for taking the time to read and reply.
Bry – Good shout, I agree on the risk management advice, will need to make sure I risk the same amount per trade.
Stewie – I say starting anew because I only learnt whatever I was taught from the material provided, for the last 3-4 years I’ve essentially used the following:
Pivot points
MACD
EMA
And a few other indicators to go long when over-sold, or short when over-bought – all the material has been more or less the same on different time frames or with slight tweaks.
Essentially the past 3-4 years after being “trained” I’ve done the same thing over and over again, I was told to persist but really it never got anywhere – there was a time back in 2013 where for a few months I was making about 5-10% a month by End of Day trading which I’ve considered going back to as I didn’t have to watch the screen much except after work to figure out my stop losses and target prices.
My trading was sporadic so my trade stats will mean sweet f-all – when I start again I’ll be happy to share everything.
Al_Bundy/benwm – I’ve not considered exposing him, he’s mostly targeting uni students at the moment rather than in general over the internet, exposing him would also out me so I’m keeping quiet currently (rightly or wrongly). You can imagine my humiliation when I figured out it was more or less what babypips teaches for free though...
Dinosaur_Supervisor – I intend to go over everything this time, but yes I only was taught technical really.
Wrbtrader – I’m open to the possibility that trading is not for me.
All I simply wish to do is try again after studying the aspects I need to cover (which will be everything) and coming up with my own strategy, then I will demo this until confident it’s profitable and try on a live account – that way I’ll know for sure if I can trade or not.
To clarify, I have my full time job and would trade as a hobby/part-time thing on the side.
Your advice is very honest and frank which is what I need right now – I agree that I ideally need someone that can observe what I am doing in person to point out what I may not be noticing, but there is a lot I can do in the meantime.
Bry – Good shout, I agree on the risk management advice, will need to make sure I risk the same amount per trade.
Stewie – I say starting anew because I only learnt whatever I was taught from the material provided, for the last 3-4 years I’ve essentially used the following:
Pivot points
MACD
EMA
And a few other indicators to go long when over-sold, or short when over-bought – all the material has been more or less the same on different time frames or with slight tweaks.
Essentially the past 3-4 years after being “trained” I’ve done the same thing over and over again, I was told to persist but really it never got anywhere – there was a time back in 2013 where for a few months I was making about 5-10% a month by End of Day trading which I’ve considered going back to as I didn’t have to watch the screen much except after work to figure out my stop losses and target prices.
My trading was sporadic so my trade stats will mean sweet f-all – when I start again I’ll be happy to share everything.
Al_Bundy/benwm – I’ve not considered exposing him, he’s mostly targeting uni students at the moment rather than in general over the internet, exposing him would also out me so I’m keeping quiet currently (rightly or wrongly). You can imagine my humiliation when I figured out it was more or less what babypips teaches for free though...
Dinosaur_Supervisor – I intend to go over everything this time, but yes I only was taught technical really.
Wrbtrader – I’m open to the possibility that trading is not for me.
All I simply wish to do is try again after studying the aspects I need to cover (which will be everything) and coming up with my own strategy, then I will demo this until confident it’s profitable and try on a live account – that way I’ll know for sure if I can trade or not.
To clarify, I have my full time job and would trade as a hobby/part-time thing on the side.
Your advice is very honest and frank which is what I need right now – I agree that I ideally need someone that can observe what I am doing in person to point out what I may not be noticing, but there is a lot I can do in the meantime.
"realistic expectations" like your constant assertions that day trading has become impossible without automated algo's?....Those kind of expectations? I trade over 200 days a year and couldn't write an algorithm at gunpoint. In fact if trading were always like they have been the past few weeks, I would be trading on my yacht off the French Coast in the Mediterranean.
Edited for accuracy
Trading is trading - long as the instrument's personalty fits yours - it all good
This is the classic - I need a new / additional indicator
Complicated - No
Easy - No (until you get your mind right - then yes)
Simple - mind numbingly so
Until you learn to be a good loser.., which means
Trade every signal
Manage every trade
Exit quickly..., every trade that breaks down and invalidates its signal
Allow working trades to hit their target
WRR till retirement.., or death
Never allow the winners or losers to affect you / your actions
======================
What you got now.., is all you will ever have (trading results wise)
I don't care how many whatevers you add to your trading..., how many times you revamp it..., or to what extent you revamp it
Shit won't change - until.., and unless - you change you
RN
DH91,
I wouldn't risk "the same amount on each trade." What you need to do it have a maximum risk, such as 3% for swing trades, and not go much beyond that. If you see a so-so trade, you might risk 1% on that one. On another trade that you feel very confident about, you might risk the full 3%. (If you have been losing, you might risk less till you get into a winning rhythm again; we usually do the opposite and risk more when we are losing which compounds it.)
If your account goes down by 25-30%, you must stop trading and go back to the drawing board! Take a break again and figure out what you are doing wrong.
I am a big believer in candlestick patterns, especially hammers, shooting stars, and engulfments (which are just hammers/ shooting stars if you double the time period). Those patterns are easy to learn. Remember that a hammer only counts as a signal if the time period is completed and the price moves ABOVE it by a couple of ticks. This is called confirmation. You don't just blindly buy hammers on the close of the candle. Combined with other edges, candlesticks really help.
Scaling in also helps. If you jump into a full position you might get scared out with a tight stop. If you go into the trade 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 at a time, it can really help sometimes.
Good luck, good skill!
Bry
ps, most of us traders have some gambler in us or we wouldn't be taking risk; just gotta control the risk and be smart about it
If you really want to be a trader, don't give up. It takes everyone a different amount of time to really understand where they fit in the markets. Trading has no barriers to entry, unlike law, medicine, engineering, etc. You don't need a 3 yr or 4yr graduate degree to become licensed to trade. All you need is a little cash and an internet connection. Therefore, alot of people are in the markets with real cash but have no clue what they are doing. You are basically going through your learning curve, it's up to you whether you will have the $ to sustain yourself through the losses that will definitely come as you continue to learn, and whether you have the perseverance to keep at this until you do start to become consistently profitable (and you should know why you are profitable).
Trading is serious business and it requires a 360 commitment, emotional, mental, physical etc
Trading is serious business and it requires a 360 commitment, emotional, mental, physical etc