Will they please stop publishing great books!

I've seen this thread at the top before but I never read it. I'm delighted to see that at least one person in the world is still reading books. I am a book loving bookworm to the bone, but I, like too many others, have become an information snacker in the digital age. Surfing google and wikipedia has replaced browsing at the bookstore.

I'm going to re-build my library and vow to never throw another book away regardless of how terrible it is.

Nitro, I see you devour new releases before the ink has even dried on the page, how do you find the time? Your book budget must be enormous. I've always had a rule that I could not buy a new book until I have read and re-read the books I currently own.

Have you seen a chart of Border's stock price? It appears as if we are going to lose yet another book store. And publishers are demanding new deals from bookstores, the stores may no longer return unsold books. In return, the stores get a better price on the books. I fear it also means much smaller bargain books bins though.

If I had to name one single book that had the greatest impact on me it would have to be The Elements of Successful Trading by Robert Rotella. Published in 1992, I bought it in 1994. In it I found the question that I needed to ask about trading and thus the answer I also needed. Up until I read that book I had never asked myself, "What is trading"? That question solidified my thinking and set me on a path that eventually led me to my first profitable year in trading. I'm not a shallow, one dimensional person as might be suggested by being so impacted by a book about speculation, but it was literally one of those life changing moments when I read it.

However, that book is not my favorite read of all time. That is yet another trading book, How I Made $2M in the Stock Market by Darvas. That book has been reviewed many times on this board, no need for another one here.

Back during the great internet boom of the 90's I tried to get as many of the new releases about day trading as I could. Some were so horrible I just threw them away. The book Dumb Money was so poorly written I didn't connect with the author at all. It seemed as though it was written by a sociopath with no connection to the rest of the world. I got the sense the author just hacked out a book as quickly as he could knowing now was the time for such a topic.

I've wanted to read Cramer's books, but I have never gotten around to it. He's such an icon in the trading world I figure I should hear what he has to say. I've never seen his television show, never read his books. He's discussed so often and thoroughly I feel as though I already know him as well as if I had read his books though.

In today's WSJ Karl Rove wrote an article about a contest he had with President Bush to see who could read the most books in a year. Rove won it this year. How do such busy men find so much time to read? Maybe I should stop making excuses and start getting catching up on the new releases. Myself being a digital information snacker has made me a part of the problem.
 
Quote from hughb:

I've seen this thread at the top before but I never read it. I'm delighted to see that at least one person in the world is still reading books. I am a book loving bookworm to the bone, but I, like too many others, have become an information snacker in the digital age. Surfing google and wikipedia has replaced browsing at the bookstore.
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I do a bit of the same. Interestingly, It has only fueled my desire to dig more deeply, not less.


I'm going to re-build my library and vow to never throw another book away regardless of how terrible it is.
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I donate the ones I don't like or the ones that seem never to get read to the public library.


Nitro, I see you devour new releases before the ink has even dried on the page, how do you find the time?
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Well, it is partly medicinal. I think I pointed out somewhere on this thread that to me reading is therapeutic. A conversation with a strong mind. A friend. That, coupled with a huge curiosity means I am a helpless in the face of a good book.

When I traded from home, my routine was trade, take dog for a walk, head over to borders and read, go get something to eat, head back over to borders, program, collapse, repeat. Now that I am a partner in a trading firm [3 of us], I don't have time to do this anymore. I literally get up go to work at 4:45 AM, go home and eat, do more work [remote in], get in a little reading, and finally collapse. On weekends I am with my daughter. I sneak in going into borders on the w/e's, but I would say I have 10% of the time I used to have to indulge myself in good books.

Your book budget must be enormous. I've always had a rule that I could not buy a new book until I have read and re-read the books I currently own.
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I recently moved downtown Chicago so I could be close to work. In my new apt, I don't have room for all my books. For the first time in my life, I had to rent one of those lockers and 85% of my books are now in boxes :( Most of the time it takes me to move, is to move the fifty or so boxes full of books. Movers hate me.

Have you seen a chart of Border's stock price? It appears as if we are going to lose yet another book store. And publishers are demanding new deals from bookstores, the stores may no longer return unsold books. In return, the stores get a better price on the books. I fear it also means much smaller bargain books bins though.
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LMAO, yeah I have seen it. I used to joke with one of the guys at the store that I was solely responsible for this particular borders monthly net. :D

If I had to name one single book that had the greatest impact on me it would have to be The Elements of Successful Trading by Robert Rotella. Published in 1992, I bought it in 1994. In it I found the question that I needed to ask about trading and thus the answer I also needed. Up until I read that book I had never asked myself, "What is trading"? That question solidified my thinking and set me on a path that eventually led me to my first profitable year in trading. I'm not a shallow, one dimensional person as might be suggested by being so impacted by a book about speculation, but it was literally one of those life changing moments when I read it.
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Oh I don't think you are shallow at all by being impacted by a book on speculation. After all, we spend most of our waking ours working, so anything that can make that take off is a real jewel. I have never read that book. I find most books on trading to be nearly worthless. Maybe one day I will post my trading books favorites on this thread.

However, that book is not my favorite read of all time. That is yet another trading book, How I Made $2M in the Stock Market by Darvas. That book has been reviewed many times on this board, no need for another one here.
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Yeah, I have it somewhere. Never read it.

Back during the great internet boom of the 90's I tried to get as many of the new releases about day trading as I could. Some were so horrible I just threw them away. The book Dumb Money was so poorly written I didn't connect with the author at all. It seemed as though it was written by a sociopath with no connection to the rest of the world. I got the sense the author just hacked out a book as quickly as he could knowing now was the time for such a topic.
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I remember browsing that book. I don't remember much a bout it.

I've wanted to read Cramer's books, but I have never gotten around to it. He's such an icon in the trading world I figure I should hear what he has to say. I've never seen his television show, never read his books. He's discussed so often and thoroughly I feel as though I already know him as well as if I had read his books though.
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I read his original book, the one with the green cover. I also read the book written by one of his ex employees. All of these books have something of value. Most people take the wrong lessons though, imo. To me the most important lesson from Cramer's books is, know everything inside out about any stock you trade.

In today's WSJ Karl Rove wrote an article about a contest he had with President Bush to see who could read the most books in a year. Rove won it this year. How do such busy men find so much time to read? Maybe I should stop making excuses and start getting catching up on the new releases. Myself being a digital information snacker has made me a part of the problem.
More...
Most people live their lives watching a tv, using a microwave, using a cell phone, a computer, turning on a light, etc. All the while these things are black boxes to them and they have no idea how these things work. The history behind them. The men and women behind the discoveries. I have a strong theoretical longing, so some of the books I post here are of that kin. Even still, the world we live in is filled with so many curious practical things...


I leave you with a quote:


The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.

( Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)
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BTW, when I mentioned the impact of The Elements of Succesfull Trading, I was only referring to the chapter that provided a definition of trading, not the book as a whole. The book is written in textbook format, not exactly the kind of book you can curl up with on a rainy day.
 
i doubt they will stop publishing POPULAR SCIENCE books as long as they can make money from them.

if you knew anything about quantitative finance you'd be writing, not buying??
 
Quote from hughb:

BTW, when I mentioned the impact of The Elements of Succesfull Trading, I was only referring to the chapter that provided a definition of trading, not the book as a whole. The book is written in textbook format, not exactly the kind of book you can curl up with on a rainy day.
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You know what is interesting as I gain more experience? While all of these trading books have some worth, the biggest mistake a retail trader that has never been exposed or trained in a professional environment is the order in which they acquire knowledge.

For example, there are trades that stood in the OEX option pit in 1985 that did nothing but reversals, conversions, and boxes, and made coin. They never read a single book on psychology, or money management, or elliot waves are whatever. There are traders in SPX options pit now doing similar things, but the level of sophistication has gone up because markets are more efficient.

You see, what I am getting at is that these books are ok to read once you have acquired some sort of technique to make money. They will increase your PnL once you have mastered certain basic skills. But reading them before you have mastered more elementary skills is completely backwards.

This myth continues to get propagated on sites like ET, where people living in the middle of nowhere that want to get into the business, come looking for knowledge. Sadly, it always ends badly because 99% of the people on these sites have an agenda, and truly teaching you how to make money is NOT it.

I am going to use an example from something else that I have some knowledge of, Chess, and compare that to options trading, and take that as far as I can without feeling uncomfortable.

When you first decide you want to play chess, you learn how to move the pieces. This is similar to say picking up Natenberg and learning what a call is, what a put is, what risk reversal is, etc.

Then, once you know how the pieces move, you learn how to mate with say K+Q against lone King. This is technique. In options trading, this is like saying, if you go long a call, and you don't want to see that call decay relentlessly day in and day out, what do you do against it? Maybe you do another call in the same month and do a call spread (vertical), or maybe you pick a call in another month and do a calendar. This is still elementary.

The next step in chess is you learn about forks, pins, king safety, the center, etc. This is beginning to get into the meat of the game. In options trading, you learn about the sensitivities, and you begin to think about your book. You might analyze your position and notice you get long gamma at this price in the underlying, or maybe you get real long vega, etc. You learn to take in edge, and work out of it for profit. Analogously, at this point, you have probably read Hull and have a good grasp of the more advanced fundamentals.

Can you play winning chess or make money yet trading options against professionals given the knowledge you have acquired by learning the above? Not by ten thousand miles. Notice, I have not talked a word about psychology, money management, wiggly lines on your screens, etc. Just pure technique and language of the subject.

Then you start studying positional themes in chess. When you first learned, you were told the queen is worth approximately 9 points, each rook 5 points, the bishop 3, the knight 2 1/2, and the pawn 1. The king is either worth infinite or about 1.5. This allows you to analyze your position quantitatively, and to evaluate what a change in position by moving a piece has. Then as you master the game, that point scale is amended by understanding that pieces have relative value based on the position. It is dynamic. So maybe you sacrifice a rook for a knight (give up 5 points for 2.5), or a queen for a devastating attack against an un-castled king, etc. In trading, there is a similar theme: All pros trade relative value. One options is cheap, another expensive. Buy the cheap one sell the expensive one, using all the technique you have acquired that allows you to do that trade in a logical, risk mitigated way. One stock is expensive vs another, do a pair trade. Etc.

I could go on for months on both subjects getting more deeply into it, until I would actually start touching on how pros make money trading options, and chess players beat their weaker opponents. AT THIS POINT, perhaps you employ a psychology into your arsenal, IF you are the type that needs it. Or perhaps you read books like Taleb because you notice your buddies PnL is a straight line, and yours is a step wise function, and you begin to wonder who has greater blow out risk. Or you delve into the intricacies of technical analysis to further refine your entry points. But this is long after you have mastered far more important techniques!

My point is, everyone on ET learns things ass backwards, or worse, they stop at wiggly lines on the screen because that is what everyone here claims is edge trading. Not only that, with very very few exceptions, almost nothing of what the professional trader does it talked about here.

If you want to learn to trade, leave ET. Go to Chicago, NYC, etc, surround yourself with traders that take money out the markets almost like clockwork today, not one, five or ten years ago, and start your journey. Then come back here for entertainment, or maybe to help out a lost confused soul and at least aim them in the right direction. You were there once.
 
It took me four years to turn the corner to profitablitly. The things I learned while devouring trading books I held as sacred, and those sacred cows are what kept me in the red and caused me frustration and heartache. If I could do it over again, I would not have picked up a single trading book, nor entered endless reams of data into spreadsheets hoping for a holy grail to jump out at me. I would have learned the job much the same way a food expediter at McDonalds learns his, by on the job training.

During those four unprofitable years, I thought that the Maket Wizards books were gospel. I read and re-read them with a pen a paper, taking notes from what I believed to be sacred scripture. These people were the most successful traders in the world, how could I not hang on their every word? Looking back now, I can see that Market Wizards was the single largest deterrent to my profitability. Having said that, I still have the Market Wizards books and will read them again knowing that they will not influence my trading now.

This discussion is veering away from books and towards trading, so I'll end this post here. However, I wanted to mention that your latest post here is a dangerous one. If newcomers to the trading arena take it to heart, they will spend less time naively buying and selling at the wrong time, which means the market will have more competent traders to contend with. I'm sure you and I both would prefer to have a marketplace full of tyros.
 
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