Will the Obama bubble burst?
- Thread starter Cutten
- Start date
Same question to you - where's your evidence that I'm an Obama supporter? I can quote you at least ten posts of mine where I've attacked his policies strongly.
It's amusing you claim I merely "present" myself as a free marketeer and libertarian, where I was on here in March opposing the Bear Stears bailout - you know, the one that Pabst ardently supported. I'm one of the only people on ET who has consistently supported a free market approach to the current crisis, and no one on ET has posted more frequent and thorough defences of the free market philosophy this last year. Certainly I have *never* seen you post any in depth defence of free markets or liberty on this site. In fact, I have not seen you post anything in depth on any subject at all. Pabst may drift towards socialism from time to time, as he did in March with Bear Stears, but at least he bothers to post his thoughts and reasoning. I have never seen any such contribution from you - all I've seen are brief assertions of your opinion (like arseholes, everyone has one), and unprovoked, immature personal attacks against people who never said anything rude to you.
Unlike most so-called libertarian free-market supporters, I actually earn my living purely from entrepreneurial/capitalist activity - trading my own money, investing in startups, and (up until 2 years ago) rental real estate. I walk the walk, I know the theory and *I practise it*, successfully. Your underhand insinuations just fall flat on their face when you try to level them against someone like me. Don't think you can even come close to smearing me, boy.
Now, put up or shut up - prove with facts and evidence that I am an Obama supporter.
Quote from vrtrop22:
I would say a lot of the resentment of Obama is racial motivated. What I don't get is that the hard core right wingers don't understand that the president they pushed on the other 49% percent of the country was an abysmal failure. So you guys get the keys to the car taken away for 4 years. I think Obama can be what Reagan was to conservatives. I think Obama may pry away that moderate wing of the GOP that can't take anymore Ws or Palins. Reagan dem meet Obama republicans
Describing someone as intelligent and competent in no way implies support of his policies. That's a basic error of logic. Also, I didn't seem to find the word "brilliant" there in those quotes? Predicting that he will pragmatically jettison his "worst leftist excesses" also does not in any way imply support for his policies. So - you don't prove that I said he was brilliant. You don't prove that I said he was a centrist (I merely think that, for pragmatic reasons, he will move more to the center). And you definitely don't give any evidence that I support his policies.
You also quote extremely selectively, a typical politician's debating trick. Allow me to provide convincing proof that I disagree with his policies, and think he has numerous weaknesses. Read these quotes and eat crow:
"He is either corrupt, economically illiterate, or both - regardless of his other policies or personal qualities." - Cutten, 14th February 2007
"Out of the three candidates - Mccain, Clinton, and Obama - literally none of them have the first clue about economics" - Cutten, 14th March 2008
"Obama is a very scary candidate on domestic policies....McCain may actually be the most moderate and reasonable candidate on a policy basis for most Americans." - Cutten, 27th March 2008
"Maybe Obama would indeed be worse. He is, after all, virtually the closest thing the US has to an elected socialist." - Cutten, 24th May 2008
"This is all from a guy who strongly disagrees with his actual policies" - Cutten, 24th July 2008
"You are gonna get 8 years of Obama, like it or not. Stock up on vaseline..." - Cutten, 24th September 2008
"If McCain wins, not only will I be out about 30 grand, but I will publicly convert to Christianity, swear off alcohol, get married to a respectable woman, have 2.4 kids, buy a house in the suburbs and paint my picket fence white, and then go round the world preaching the merits of clean living, thrift, and social responsibility.
In other words, McCain has no chance." - Cutten, 24th July 2008
Comprehensive proof that I consistently criticized Obama's policies, and in some cases his ethics, from as long as 21 months ago. A total refutation of the absurd accusations of yourself and Pabst. In a way I feel sorry for you, because now you are going to suffer through 8 years of socialism. As Jim Bunning said, you're going to end up like France - just without the good food or wine.
Aww, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy!
Pabst - all those quotes are simply showing my *assessment* of his political skills and other individual qualities (e.g. speech-making ability, political charisma, intelligence, competence). That is nothing to do with my opinion on his policies or political beliefs, which I have criticized numerous times (see above). None of those show that I *support* him and his views. If this was 1932 I would have said FDR would win a landslide for similar reasons, yet obviously I am totally opposed to FDR policies.
If someone in 1925 said that Hitler was skilled at political scheming and power-grabbing, and would take control of Germany and successfully invade Paris, does that mean they supported his views? What if they said he was a brave soldier (he was decorated for valour in WWI)? Of course not. In the same way, predicting way in advance that Obama was the more charismatic, politically astute, intelligent candidate, and would therefore win, does not in any way imply support for his policies. When combined with numerous criticisms of his policy stance, and even his personal ethics, it is indisputable that I did not agree with or support him.
You do understand the difference between a positive and normative statement, don't you? Dispassionate assessment of facts versus moral judgements/opinions? That is after all what traders do for a living. If the facts show a stock is likely to rise, you don't stay flat just because you hate the product.
No one with two brain cells to rub together, and who has read my post history, could *ever* consider I would support the left-wing policies of Barack Obama. I mean, I'm the guy who views George Bush as a big government socialist. Why would I approve of the policies of one of the most left-wing guys in the US Congress? Me agreeing with the bulk of Obama's political views is about as likely as you praising the philosophy of the Black Panthers.
If someone in 1925 said that Hitler was skilled at political scheming and power-grabbing, and would take control of Germany and successfully invade Paris, does that mean they supported his views? What if they said he was a brave soldier (he was decorated for valour in WWI)? Of course not. In the same way, predicting way in advance that Obama was the more charismatic, politically astute, intelligent candidate, and would therefore win, does not in any way imply support for his policies. When combined with numerous criticisms of his policy stance, and even his personal ethics, it is indisputable that I did not agree with or support him.
You do understand the difference between a positive and normative statement, don't you? Dispassionate assessment of facts versus moral judgements/opinions? That is after all what traders do for a living. If the facts show a stock is likely to rise, you don't stay flat just because you hate the product.
No one with two brain cells to rub together, and who has read my post history, could *ever* consider I would support the left-wing policies of Barack Obama. I mean, I'm the guy who views George Bush as a big government socialist. Why would I approve of the policies of one of the most left-wing guys in the US Congress? Me agreeing with the bulk of Obama's political views is about as likely as you praising the philosophy of the Black Panthers.
Cutten-it was driving me MAD. Yes by your history of free market advocacy it seemed unlikely but you must admit that in isolation some of your quotes could cause confusion. I'm relieved bro. Honestly! 
If Obama restricts free trade and increases taxes on businesses he will go down as one of the worst presidents ever, and will lose his second term bid. However, his advisors won't let him do that.
Are you saying that you did not prefer Obama to McCain, or Obama to Bush? If not, it is completely justified to question you libertarianism. And for every quote you can find where you are critical of Obama, I can find one in which you write favorably of him.
And I agree you have written some excellence defenses of freedom and free markets. That is why I found your seeming preference for Obama so perplexing. It is as if you support capitalism and communism, freedom and statism, simultaneously.
Whether you find my previous posts substantive or not is irrelevant. I post briefly because of limited time, and I am rude because it gets response. Bear in mind that I tried to engage you on your praise of Obama several times before but got no response until now. If its not worth your time, ignore me.
I earn my living the same way you do, and 'walk' the libertarian 'walk' as much as anybody. I don't know what you think is underhanded about questioning your libertarianism when you appear to express admiration for the likes of Obama, Maher, Soros, ect...