Will Obama's jobs plan improve the economy?

[nokomisjeff]

Quote from oldtime:

When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, the unemployment rate went negative.

Everybody had a job whether you wanted one or not.

They even had to hire ladies to do mens jobs.

But Oldtime, is being forced to have a job at the point of a gun really working? Is being drafter being employed? Sure, one can consider WWII to be a giant public works project with full employment, but what could the workers buy with their money? Everything was rationed were no new cars, tires, houses, big ticket items. Gasoline, sugar, oil, meat, clothes, all consumer staples etc. Price controls meant you couldn't get a raise, and they also affected what little free market we had. Plus, the loss of freedom? But then again, a tyrannical society is what Hayek said would happen when the central planners take control.

Then when the war was over, in 1946-47 we had a huge inflation which taxed away the savings of the workers who had been saving.

Public works projects really work, just ask the workers who built the pyramids in ancient Egypt. It turned out pretty good for them....No??

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Lights:

Default would be best option for jobs creation long term. Looking at 1998 asian default, those nations which defaulted now have the lowest unemployment rates in the world. How does that work? Basically you kill unions and dismantle the modern robber barons.

I think I agree

Default good

Devalue bad

But I'm not sure what the unions have to do with it.

Seems to me it's a good business idea to unionize to increase buying power.

for example, if I needed health insurance, I might ask around and see if enough other traders wanted to go in on it with me.

Isn't that what a union is?

 

[nokomisjeff]

Quote from oldtime:

The best way to stimulate the economy and create jobs would be to eliminate all fuel taxes at the pump, both for truckers and 4 wheelers.

Then raise the minimum wage to $10/hr.

Every business has already laid off everyone they can, Raising the wage won't create more unemployment, and people making less than $10/hr will have some money to spend.

It's only money. We print it everyday and we can do whatever we want with it.

Inflation? No problem. Just start paying workers in gas coupons, foodstamps, and Walmart gift certificates.

Housing? I'll spare you till I think about it.

Oldtime, why not just raise the minimum wage to $50/hour so everybody has $2K a week to spend? Hey, why not just print money so nobody has to work at all, just pay us all $100K-1mm whatever....we'll live off of that.

You ought to read Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson" to correct all the fallacious contentions you're making. Here's the complete pdf of the book and it's a quick 2 hour read in simple language. http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/Economics_in_one_lesson.pdf

 

[chaosclarity]

The solution proposed by Obama is basically to lend money from foreign governments like China and then to give that money away to other entitities in the hopes it will produce jobs. During the last stimulus, money was given away fast and in an unchecked manner which resulted in obvious abuse and no jobs.

I believe the best solution is to try to provide the best environment possible for private business and enterprise. Is Obama currently providing the best environment possible for business and enterprise? Personally, I would not know because I am not the CEO of a major corporation. However, ask Steve Wynn, the Chamber of Commerce and other business leaders and their opinion is shockingly negative against Obama.

I do not see how all these additional laws, regulation and a larger government will help the economy. The Obama economy seems more like the Carter economy all over again. Gold going through the roof and such. Im thinking Perry would be a good pick for the next President as he has Ronald Reagan like qualities. He shoots from the hip a lot just like Reagan and people seem to like that. They follow Perry. Romney is a good choice too, but I can tell Romney isnt as gutsy as Perry. Either has more experience and would probably improve employment then Obama ever will...

 

[oldtime]

Quote from nokomisjeff:

Oldtime, why not just raise the minimum wage to $50/hour so everybody has $2K a week to spend? Hey, why not just print money so nobody has to work at all, just pay us all $100K-1mm whatever....we'll live off of that.

You ought to read Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson" to correct all the fallacious contentions you're making. Here's the complete pdf of the book and it's a quick 2 hour read in simple language. http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/Economics_in_one_lesson.pdf

At $50/hr if it takes me two hours to read it, that's a little pricey for a book don't you think?

We've already agreed the gov can't create jobs.

So how high can we raise the min wage before people start getting fired?

My guess is quite a bit.

You gotta start somewhere, why not at the bottom?

 

[oldtime]

Get laid off at $20/hr

Only job out there is min wage $7.20

Better just to take unemployment till it runs out.

Min wage goes to $10

Better than nothing

Work at Mcdonalds, don't like it, but didn't like the factory either.

Price of hamburger goes up.

No new franchises

Good opportunity now for mom and pop hamburger stand

Don't have to compete against Mcdonalds

Hamburger prices are high

No problem, everybody makes $10/hr

It's just like the universe

Everything keeps expanding until it falls apart

Hey, if it was good enough for God it's good enough for me

 

[nokomisjeff]

Quote from oldtime:

At $50/hr if it takes me two hours to read it, that's a little pricey for a book don't you think?

We've already agreed the gov can't create jobs.

So how high can we raise the min wage before people start getting fired?

My guess is quite a bit.

You gotta start somewhere, why not at the bottom?

Well, if you read Hazlitt, you'd see why your thinking is flawed and that you're buying into a common fallacy. But then again, it really doesn't matter. Your main fault in reasoning is that you think that by raising the wages of some, that will increase demand because of the extra money around. We've already recovered the consumption spending and my good friend noted economist, Robert Higgs has so eloquently written about here. http://blog.independent.org/2011/09/09/one-more-time-consumption-spending-has-already-recovered/ If you don't wish to waste time reading Higgs article (2 minutes at $50/hour) here's the data directly from commerce. http://tinyurl.com/3ss4ckc

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from southbeach4me:

And to think this guy went to Harvard !!....

Which, in our modern times, means almost NOTHING.

One look at Odumbo proves that.

 

[chaosclarity]

I honestly believe that Obama has brought down the Harvard name and the Nobel Prize. A lot of smart folks did go to Harvard and now as a result of Obama less Harvard grads may be considered for political positions.

I am finding more and more that folks have strong opinions against Obama...but few have strong opinions for Obama. Most people who support Obama do so quietly almost like those folks who kept holding INTC and CSCO after 2001 quietly hoping they would go back up...

Quote from Lucrum:

Which, in our modern times, means almost NOTHING.

One look at Odumbo proves that.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from nokomisjeff:

Well, if you read Hazlitt, you'd see why your thinking is flawed and that you're buying into a common fallacy. But then again, it really doesn't matter. Your main fault in reasoning is that you think that by raising the wages of some, that will increase demand because of the extra money around. We've already recovered the consumption spending and my good friend noted economist, Robert Higgs has so eloquently written about here. http://blog.independent.org/2011/09/09/one-more-time-consumption-spending-has-already-recovered/ If you don't wish to waste time reading Higgs article (2 minutes at $50/hour) here's the data directly from commerce. http://tinyurl.com/3ss4ckc

ok, the raising the minimum wage part was a bad idea.

But eliminating taxes at the pump, especially for truckers. How about that?