Will I make the big $$$ with this Firm?

[syswizard]

and you must use limit orders to start.

Well that just kills this "deal". I remember my days of trading on the ever-so-awful Lightspeed trading platform of 10 years ago which had no support for Stop orders.
Totally sucked, totally. You couldn't go to the men's room....everyone pee'd in their pants.

The platform on which you trade is MOMBO important...and a critical determination of your success or failure...IMHO.

 

[jnbadger]

Recently applied at a prop firm here in Canada called SFG Trading for remote trading. They told me their risk managers had assessed my application, and said I would be welcome to join their Trader Trial Program. These guys do not require a deposit of any risk capital, just a data fee of $149.00/month. They say I will start trading with real money, and if I meet their requirements and trade well - I can become fully contracted with them. The thing is this fee only covers a basic level 1 data feed and charts. They tell me i can subscribe to a separate data provider if I wish to get level 2 during the trial, and that if i become fully contracted with them - level 2 will be provided.

The thing is, I am just a bit surprised they are letting me trade with real money after seeing a quick application form I filled out online.(although I would like to think I did show I know some things about trading well) And is it suspect that they only provide level 1 data to someone who is trading their money during the trial? Wouldn't you want to give someone trading your $$$ the tools they need? Could they just be profiting from marking this up, and is there a chance - I would not actually be trading with real $$$ as they have said? I am just wondering if I should be suspicious here or if I need to lighten up, and just do the program, and shell out for a bit of level 2 - which I am not against doing.

From your comment on the WTS thread about intentionally submitting substandard answers to their questionnaire after submitting your real one, they are accepting anyone who can type. And from their FAQ, they start you with 25k of real money after a couple of days of sim trading. And they are willing to take that unheard of risk, but they still want you to pay for the bad data feed, with out the option to upgrade to level 2 which you would pay for.

And according to this thread:
http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?threads/sfg-trading.201693/#post-3390879

they have changed their business address multiple times and might be a part of WTS, who hasn't been making payments. And now you are saying the home address is in Dubai.

They answer the phone "trading", they won't let anyone come to the office, but they'll buy you drinks at a nearby bar.

Call me bored, but this one got my attention. But it doesn't make sense.

Would someone really set up a scam just to collect monthly data fees? And it's not like they are keeping you on demo while saying you are live and systematically collecting commissions out of your account, since you never gave them a risk deposit.

If it is illegitimate, what am I missing? Or is the deal so good, a monkey could fill out a form and start trading real money? (No offense, Wonder)

 

[WonderBoy81]

From your comment on the WTS thread about intentionally submitting substandard answers to their questionnaire after submitting your real one, they are accepting anyone who can type. And from their FAQ, they start you with 25k of real money after a couple of days of sim trading. And they are willing to take that unheard of risk, but they still want you to pay for the bad data feed, with out the option to upgrade to level 2 which you would pay for.

And according to this thread:
http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?threads/sfg-trading.201693/#post-3390879

they have changed their business address multiple times and might be a part of WTS, who hasn't been making payments. And now you are saying the home address is in Dubai.

They answer the phone "trading", they won't let anyone come to the office, but they'll buy you drinks at a nearby bar.

Call me bored, but this one got my attention. But it doesn't make sense.

Would someone really set up a scam just to collect monthly data fees? And it's not like they are keeping you on demo while saying you are live and systematically collecting commissions out of your account, since you never gave them a risk deposit.

If it is illegitimate, what am I missing? Or is the deal so good, a monkey could fill out a form and start trading real money? (No offense, Wonder)

Yeah - its completely strange. I have been trading their "live account." No market orders of any kind to enter - whether you overlap the bid/ask, or set up a sweep key, all liquidity removing orders are rejected. However market orders are allowed on exits only. Further to that you get a basket of about 100 stocks they let you trade - nothing outside of that will go through. The start-up guide they send you says you must take at least 25 trades per day, and holding times should not be more than 5 minutes. Intraday stop loss is $20.00 to begin with, and they say that goes up as you build equity. You cannot choose to use any different ECNs, but only their "smart router."

My only thought is that its a demo account they tell you is real, and you are under conditions most people will fail at, so there is revenue from the data, but if you do pull it off, and they have to pay you anything - from their perspective it would be seen as the cost of acquiring a trader. Although, who knows what would happen at that point.

 

[i960]

Yeah - its completely strange. I have been trading their "live account." No market orders of any kind to enter - whether you overlap the bid/ask, or set up a sweep key, all liquidity removing orders are rejected. However market orders are allowed on exits only.

Smells like they're mighty interested in ECN rebates to me.

 

[jnbadger]

Yeah - its completely strange. I have been trading their "live account." No market orders of any kind to enter - whether you overlap the bid/ask, or set up a sweep key, all liquidity removing orders are rejected. However market orders are allowed on exits only. Further to that you get a basket of about 100 stocks they let you trade - nothing outside of that will go through. The start-up guide they send you says you must take at least 25 trades per day, and holding times should not be more than 5 minutes. Intraday stop loss is $20.00 to begin with, and they say that goes up as you build equity. You cannot choose to use any different ECNs, but only their "smart router."

My only thought is that its a demo account they tell you is real, and you are under conditions most people will fail at, so there is revenue from the data, but if you do pull it off, and they have to pay you anything - from their perspective it would be seen as the cost of acquiring a trader. Although, who knows what would happen at that point.

I guess it sounds a little more legit when there are such insanely tight parameters to follow.

It sounds sort of like a Tower Hill kind of deal. Bring in anyone with a pulse, and when the majority fail, the firm still hasn't lost much. But at least this place isn't starting you out at 5 share positions like THT.

 

[syswizard]

The start-up guide they send you says you must take at least 25 trades per day, and holding times should not be more than 5 minutes. Intraday stop loss is $20.00 to begin with

Well, those 2 restrictions are just totally at opposites.
So your average risk per trade is less than a buck ? Ridiculous !!

 

[ScalperJoe]

Further to that you get a basket of about 100 stocks they let you trade - nothing outside of that will go through. The start-up guide they send you says you must take at least 25 trades per day, and holding times should not be more than 5 minutes. Intraday stop loss is $20.00 to begin with, and they say that goes up as you build equity. You cannot choose to use any different ECNs, but only their "smart router."

My only thought is that its a demo account they tell you is real, and you are under conditions most people will fail at, so there is revenue from the data, but if you do pull it off, and they have to pay you anything - from their perspective it would be seen as the cost of acquiring a trader. Although, who knows what would happen at that point.

"Intraday stop loss is $20.00 to begin with."

Is that TOTAL per stock, or per day? If it's 100 share minimum order, then it's 20 cents on a 5 min bar. Taking the 25 minimum trades, the maximum allowable draw is $500. If it's $20 PER DAY, then as the op said, "ridiculous!"

 

[WonderBoy81]

"Intraday stop loss is $20.00 to begin with."

Is that TOTAL per stock, or per day? If it's 100 share minimum order, then it's 20 cents on a 5 min bar. Taking the 25 minimum trades, the maximum allowable draw is $500. If it's $20 PER DAY, then as the op said, "ridiculous!"

Its per day. If you build equity they give you a wider stop.

 

[ScalperJoe]

Its per day. If you build equity they give you a wider stop.

How do they expect anyone to "build equity" risking a mere 80 cents per trade, lol!

Given the parameters, the answer to your thread's title is very simple. It's an emphatic "NO!"

 

[WonderBoy81]

How do they expect anyone to "build equity" risking a mere 80 cents per trade, lol!

Given the parameters, the answer to your thread's title is very simple. It's an emphatic "NO!"

haha- well I titled the thread that way to try to get people to read it. I have been finding the 25 trades has not actually been enforced as mandatory - sometimes i only take 2 or 3 trades/day - no one has bothered me about it so far. But yah its pretty easy to get stopped out for the day even still.