Will i ever get it.

[Trading Education Buyer]

It is your BELIEF that daytrading does not work. Unfortunately, I have seen daytraders making it on trading floors. So my beliefs are different.

Now, the newbie as far as I can see :
* repeated the same mistakes over and over again, and at no moment did he really manage to clear one mistake.
That is really why he failed.

The vendors , the educators, etc are not the one who create failures. I'd say that if one can use what they offer well, and stick to identifying mistakes and then eliminating mistakes, one can make it.
But now, are people really willing to question themselves so as to make it work?

These things do work , trends are only evident in hindsight , price action in a 50/50 market is a subjective trade based on the individual.This can't be taught , it has to be engrained in the subconcious mind.After all if it all worked , the losers would not be hanging around forums for years after writing books ,posting 5,000 posts as ramping forum assistants on a thread on t2w for VOLMAN ,they would be trading it and making money .


If something is working , why give youe edge away?Every one sees subjective as different

Rather, price action traders observe recent price movements for technical indicators and then place their trades based on their individual decision making. Only the identification of the trade condition is based on established analysis criteria, the decision to buy, sell or hold is subjective.


subjective:
1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
existing in the mind;belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/subjective

 

[galvinlee888]

I have made it day trading for a few years, - the problem was sustainability. The burn out and the inevitable prolonged sideways and narrow market conditions kills multi-year winning day traders - go extinct or adapt. So I switched to swing trading and never looked back - this is sustainable, going on 15 years now. Nothing worse than being a day trader with a flay year yet paying your broker $40k in commissions - no thanks, been there done that.

Good to see someone tell the true and share the real experience.

 

[wrbtrader]

two years ago - dec 2014.
WrbTrader: used to claim to be a big winner. has since then became serious ill. had some trips to the hospital where he realized the importance of good health. Some ET posters were questionning his trading over the last few months. Not on his private yacht.

Redneck : no posts. A real loss as very good advice offered. Claimed to be a big winner. Someone on ET was accusing him and some other posters Jas_ etc of running some kind of dump and pump schemes and thus of running a group fo people looking on ET for the suckers. May be on his private yacht with his group (?). I seriously doubt the nefarious accusations made against RedNeck. More likely, Redneck is a very prudent on whom he lets around himself.

NoDoji : was a big advocate for Al Brooks. Claimed to be a big winner. Many ET vouched for her, so I assume she was a big winner. No recent posts. May be on her private yacht.

ExperiencedJoe: believed psychology had no effects on trading. Was chasing the holy grail trading strategy. Has now stopped posting. As he claimed he was losing, but explained he did not want to do any psychology, may be on a full time job, or retired, or on holidays?

Note: the thread starter. Found some holy grail trading strategy. Followed it. As far as i could see, it did not work out. Not on his own private yacht paid for via trading.

Turvey: still ploughing on technically. Has not yet moved to sorting the psychology.

I never claimed in this thread to be a big winner...never claimed, never suggested and never hinted to have owned a private yacht. Heck, never been on any private yacht owned by someone else. Looks like a fantasy you've made up.

Also, only posted two messages in this thread and now my 3rd. One telling the guy in a "nice way"...this is a tough game. I just find it odd if I tell someone how tough it is, tell someone in another thread not to quit their job or tell someone in a different thread to find something else to do...someone replies back with the "yacht tell"...strange.

Don't know all the other 20+ characters in this thread. I guess they're still here at this forum or just change user names except for a few that were "banned" or now on other social medias.

Did not have "several trips" to the hospital as you implied in error. Had only one and stayed in the hospital for many weeks (was in a coma).

As for my trading, has always been question since 2002 when I posted real time trades prior to moving into posting daily broker PnL statements...same idiots never satisfied because they want me to post it here at this forum or a new bunch show up here and try to start the same "yacht rumor mill".

Once again, I don't discuss my losses/profits here at this forum...never have and never will. Thus, no claims here.

Keep your job or stay in school.

 

[Stymie]

I repeat again, there is No Edge in day trading after you take into account the commission and slippage. You need strong edges to win in this game but unfortunately those edges are not available to retails traders.

It is FAR better for him to give up in early of stage, rather than only come this conclusion AFTER two years of wasting his time and money as seen in the thread


Shame to those professional posters that pretend to be successful traders that lurk new traders into this trap, or the fail traders that try to look for self inflated ergo in internet and pretending to be successful traders, fake guru that look for followers for subscription, vendor or educators that know nothing and etc. Shame to those people as they are no different than online gambling ads that promote gambling in trading world.

I agree with Lee. The retail client can't see global order flows and run algo's on trading servers around the world to push liquidity before and during trading hours.
This market is no different from the casinos in Vegas where you play cash games of poker and the house takes 10% of each hand. The winners are the house but even they fail to show big profits as they have their friends build bigger casinos and pay big bonuses.
The high velocity traders pay brokers like TD money to take retail order flow and exploit them. These guys make profits every day of the year pushing retail clients around and front running their order flows if they are tagged as "Smart". Just follow the real money based on tax returns and ignore the 99% noise. The barrier to entry is capital and technology before you start thinking about predicting random profound events within a time frame.

 

[trickshot]

I have made it day trading for a few years, - the problem was sustainability. The burn out and the inevitable prolonged sideways and narrow market conditions kills multi-year winning day traders - go extinct or adapt. So I switched to swing trading and never looked back - this is sustainable, going on 15 years now. Nothing worse than being a day trader with a flay year yet paying your broker $40k in commissions - no thanks, been there done that.

Yep I too stopped daytrading after volatility disappeared from markets a few years ago, its practically suicide trying to trade a market that does nothing most of the time. ATR has been terribly low for daytrading in the past few years, that is if we take out the few isolated event-driven volatility spikes.

Its just too costly trying to grind out 1-2 points on daily basis, the comms and spreads are just mathematically impossible to overcome given the ATR.

 

[SteveM]

This market is no different from the casinos in Vegas where you play cash games of poker and the house takes 10% of each hand.

If this forum was around when trading was "good" in the 1970s/80s, wouldn't we have been complaining about floor traders front running our orders, not picking up the phone when the market got busy, running traders stops, sky-high commissions, lack of liquidity, huge gaps, etc?

Below is a link to the last 30-years of annual returns from the futures World Cup of trading....you'll note that the top traders in 2016 are putting up similar per annum returns that the top traders in 1986 were putting up. Yes, the markets present new challenges today, but below is proof that there are still people outperforming the pack.

http://www.worldcupchampionships.com/live-stats-3

 

[Stymie]

If this forum was around when trading was "good" in the 1970s/80s, wouldn't we have been complaining about floor traders front running our orders, not picking up the phone when the market got busy, running traders stops, sky-high commissions, lack of liquidity, huge gaps, etc?

Below is a link to the last 30-years of annual returns from the futures World Cup of trading....you'll note that the top traders in 2016 are putting up similar per annum returns that the top traders in 1986 were putting up. Yes, the markets present new challenges today, but below is proof that there are still people outperforming the pack.

http://www.worldcupchampionships.com/live-stats-3

I agree that we easily forget how hard it was back in the '80s. I was not complaining then cause I was in the pit paying low commissions and picking which orders to take the other side. But I won't forget that there were plenty of people blowing up around me when I was in the pit so it was not a party in there. The electronic markets changed the dynamics and transparency so it's harder to lose trades or not confirm fills until the market has moved big in one direction. Those days are gone but the drive to find ways to game the system live on. Spoofing is the top discussion point today anyways. The retail trader has a better chance today by far and commissions have come down significantly so you don't need to own a seat anymore to get costs down. The big challenge today is that we have so much disinformation out there - you don't know what to trade on anymore - that has changed. Unless I am looking in the wrong place now - presume there may be a new place where valuable news is published? Its not TWTR or FB, that I know...

That's a cool list - I notice that every year we have a new set of names. We don't have the same people winning it every year for the last thirty years although I would bet all those people still trade the markets today if they didn't blow up. This might suggest that the markets are more random than professional golf. Or perhaps the longevity of an electronic trader is similar to pit trading although more mental than physical stress??

 

[galvinlee888]

That's a cool list - I notice that every year we have a new set of names. We don't have the same people winning it every year for the last thirty years although I would bet all those people still trade the markets today if they didn't blow up. This might suggest that the markets are more random than professional golf. Or perhaps the longevity of an electronic trader is similar to pit trading although more mental than physical stress??

You will find "winner" anytime if you go to any casino. The key point is you won't see any "permanent" or long tetm winner in any casino. The reason is simple, casino has the unfair edge to enable them to be the only winner in long term.

A simple math, casino only need 1/37 (or 2.7%) edge in roulette as a winner in long term.

As OP point out, retail Day Trader will loss in long term after include the commission and slippage (aka 1/36 in roulette). This is the reason you don't see the same name in the list in long term. All the day trader (similiar with gamblers in any casino) will gone in long term.