Will Bush get re-elected?

[cashonly]

Quote from Covertibility:

There's a reason why Bush is running the 9/11 ads, what else has he done?

Spent hundreds of billions of dollars to do what his daddy should have when he had a chance.

Put the US back into deficit spending.

Presided over one of the largest stock market declines in history?

Bombed the sh** out of a country that was already in the stone ages to find one man who he never found.

Won a presidential election with less than 50% of the popular vote by having his brother help him behind the scenes in Florida.

OH! Wait A Minute! you mean things he's done that would be GOOD to have on a campaign ad! Now that's gonna take some thought!

 

[axeman]

Ok I see what your saying now, but I disagree with:
Nobody is waging class warfare against you as an individual

The dems are waging class warfare against me by labeling me
extemely rich. See my previous post.

Hyping people up to go after the those RICH cats making
a mere $45k/year in california is a JOKE. You are no where NEAR
rich in claifornia if you are the parents of a kid making $45k/year
each. This would not be easy living in california.

The dems have been dragging this "RICH" lie around for far
too long and they need to be called on it.

$45k/year in california is like 30K a year on a national level. (Probably less)

If people who support the DEMS raising taxes on the "RICH"
realized they were talking about people making 30-45k/year
do you really think they would go for it?

This is a blatant class warfare fabrication on the DEMS part.

peace

axeman

Quote from dddooo:

The special favors and perks go to corporations, Halliburtons of the world, not individuals. Even republicans do not argue with that.

Medicare: lots of people canceled their AARP membership over its support of medicare bill. Just another example of class warfare - government and special interests (Drug companies and AARP) against people. Same question again, who started it?

CEOs and boards of directors make sweetheart deals, you do not believe that the government should interfere with CEO compensation, but when people stand up for their interest you call it "class warfare". You can't have it both ways, there's got to be a way to stop this abuse.

Nobody is waging class warfare against you as an individual, it's being waged against abusive corporations, their executives and lobbiests, who actually started the whole thing.

Do not get me wrong, I hate democrats too, it's just right now they at least are talking about serious issues facing the country, issues which republicans do not even want to acknowledge.

 

[cdbern]

Quote from cashonly:

Spent hundreds of billions of dollars to do what his daddy should have when he had a chance.

Back seat driving. What would have happened had Bush Sr. gone after Hussein like Bush Jr. did, Dems would have screamed bloody murder that he was overreaching his objective. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Put the US back into deficit spending.

We've never been OUT of deficit spending. The surplus you're talking about. Its all in how you count the beans. And even if there were a surplus, why is it that Dems NEVER want to give it back to the people.

Presided over one of the largest stock market declines in history?

Sure would have been nice if Billy boy had gotten Bin Laden when he had the chance(es). Wouldn't have had a 9/11. Of course everyone was talking about the bubble getting ready to pop. We won't talk about though.


Won a presidential election with less than 50% of the popular vote by having his brother help him behind the scenes in Florida.

So he's the only president in history to win without a majority of popular vote? Gore was trying to change the rules and steal the election. Get it straight. Dems have been stuffing the ballot boxes for decades.

 

[Doubter]

Won a presidential election with less than 50% of the popular vote by having his brother help him behind the scenes in Florida.
cashonly
_______________________________________________

One week before the 2000 election Bush was ahead 4-5 points in the most accurate polls, then the dems ran the drunk driving attack over the weekend before the election and the votes shifted but not enough to win the electoral votes. Gore didn't even carry his home state. Gore tried to upset the electoral votes but "dumb" Bush stood his ground and look where Gore is today. This is what really irritates dems is that their dirty tricks didn't work and their candidate is history, put there by someone they consider dumb. Look at the unbeatable Ann Richards and where she is today, look at the 2002 mid-term elections and who gained
and lost, all done or helped by this dumb candidate.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from axeman:


The dems are waging class warfare against me by labeling me
extemely rich. See my previous post.

Hyping people up to go after the those RICH cats making
a mere $45k/year in california is a JOKE. You are no where NEAR
rich in claifornia if you are the parents of a kid making $45k/year
each. This would not be easy living in california.

I do not know what Davis said, but $45K is ridiculous in any part of the country let alone California. Based on what I heard from Kerry and other democrats they consider rich those making above $200K a year (highest 5%). Kerry does want to repeal Bush's tax cuts only for income above $200K which I believe is quite reasonable given the current budget crisis.

It's certainly not class warfare in my book, just progressive taxation. There will never be any hatred towards a trader making $50K or $50mln, against small business owner etc. The animosity is primarily directed against large businesses and their CEOs, boards of directors etc, which make sweethart deals, give each other huge raises and stock tips, write laws good for them and bad for the country through lobbying and compaign donations, incorporate their companies in Cayman Island to avoid paying american taxes and ship jobs overseas to avoid paying american wages. Democrats are just as guilty as republicans, but right now they are at least talking about it.

 

[BloodTrader]

Quote from cdbern:

These class envy Democrats are farther away than ever from the words of President Lincoln who said, “You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.”

Not the issue cd. The Bushies are tilting the playing field to the point where the middle and lower classes are getting screwed even if they try hard and play the game by the rules. And they can plainly see the rules don't apply to the plutocrats.

It's a bad deal for democracy.

m

 

[cdbern]

Quote from MackieMesser:

The Bushies are tilting the playing field to the point where the middle and lower classes are getting screwed even if they try hard and play the game by the rules. And they can plainly see the rules don't apply to the plutocrats.

m

HOW??

 

[BloodTrader]

Quote from sulong:

I'm not a bush fan by any means, but..

The wealthy got there by searching for, and taking advantage of "edges" within tax codes, legal loop holes, exc...
A big edge for the wealthy is motivation to search out these potential money making, money saving, activities the government allows, at any given time.

The working class, will always be the be the underdog, due to the searching for their "edge" factor.

If you want to run with the big dogs, you have to get off the porch.

It's not that simple. You can easily see what happens when government and the wealthy become too closely entwined. Your lose your democracy, or have a parody of democracy. Just look at so many of the capitalist third world countries. Do we really want to end up like them? With a wealthy ruling elite and everyone else can just eat shit and die?

m

 

[BloodTrader]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

This will no doubt be the Dem's strategy, "worst economy in 275 years", sending "our" jobs overseas, etc. I predict it will fail. Firstly, things are not bad at all for the average voter. Most likely things will continue to improve over the year. What was the unemployment rate when Clinton was reelected?

Secondly, Kerry can complain all he wants, but what is his solution? Raise taxes. That's it. He can rail about outsourcing, etc but let's see him run on an anti-free trade platform. Didn't work for Perot, didn't work for Buchanan, won't work for him. He already has all thoughtful investors against him, maybe he can scare 185 million WalMart shoppers over to the Republicans as well.

Hate to agree with you AAA, but I think it's impossible to blame all economic woes on Bush and, so far, it is not all that bad.

But Bush's tax cutting has been irresponisible and way too biased towards the wealthiest Americans.

In foreign policy, environment, immigration and...well... almost everything, this administration is a wreck and doing us great harm.

m

 

[ARogueTrader]

Can anyone give a good reason why lobbying by special interest groups should not be outlawed?

There is absolutely no doubt that lobbying by special interest groups works, so in effect you are allowing public policy to be made and controlled by wealthy/powerful groups, not a democratic process.

Why is this legal? It subverts the spirit of the constitution, all we hear is complaints about it, but the senators and the congressmen won't give up the perks and campaign contributions that flow through the lobby system.

Quote from MackieMesser:

It's not that simple. You can easily see what happens when government and the wealthy become too closely entwined. Your lose your democracy, or have a parody of democracy. Just look at so many of the capitalist third world countries. Do we really want to end up like them? With a wealthy ruling elite and everyone else can just eat shit and die?

m