Why wont the US collapse?

KINGOFSHORTS · Dec 21, 2009

Quote from intradaybill:

If you attack A, please suggest option B. Meaning that:

What is the alternative to fiat money? Please, don't tell me it is gold. Someone must be either too stupid ot too naive to think that going back to gold is a solution when it is mostly owned by the same people who own the oil wells or by those who have the biggest trade surplus. Do you knwo what that would mean? Immediate starvation for a good part of the world or in the best case slavery.

Pray, "Long live fiat money", you should...

THIS IS the future

peilthetraveler · Dec 21, 2009

Quote from intradaybill:

If you attack A, please suggest option B. Meaning that:

What is the alternative to fiat money? Please, don't tell me it is gold. Someone must be either too stupid ot too naive to think that going back to gold is a solution when it is mostly owned by the same people who own the oil wells or by those who have the biggest trade surplus. Do you knwo what that would mean? Immediate starvation for a good part of the world or in the best case slavery.

Pray, "Long live fiat money", you should...

Yeah too stupid or naive to believe that a form of money that had been used for 5000 years would still work. I mean...we've been off of it for 38 years now...no way we can go back on it after ALL that time. Remember back how bad our parents had it in the 1950s & 60s when we were still on the gold standard? We had no food....slaves were everywhere and it was just terrible.

People had food before fiat money, and slavery was abolished over 100 years before we went off gold so dont even try to paint it like it would be a mad max style world if we went off fiat money.

Kassz007 · Dec 22, 2009

Here's a thought for you doom and gloomers - the USA will not collapse. Weaken? Absolutely. Collapse? Hardly. The fact that the USA will not be head and shoulders above every other country in the world is not a collapse. It may seem like it to you Americans who have got used to being the lone superpower in the world since the Soviet collapse, but the USA will not be finished. The USA will simply slow down their advancement as other countries (China, Japan, Russia, Brazil, etc.) catch up.

It's not the end of the world, as much as many of you would like to believe.

Angrycat · Dec 22, 2009

Quote from Kassz007:

Here's a thought for you doom and gloomers - the USA will not collapse. Weaken? Absolutely. Collapse? Hardly. The fact that the USA will not be head and shoulders above every other country in the world is not a collapse. It may seem like it to you Americans who have got used to being the lone superpower in the world since the Soviet collapse, but the USA will not be finished. The USA will simply slow down their advancement as other countries (China, Japan, Russia, Brazil, etc.) catch up.

It's not the end of the world, as much as many of you would like to believe.

I don't think it's an issue of "superpower", I think the issue for most Americans is a slide in the very high standard of living.

With the rise of socialism and fascism in the United States, the standard of living will decline. Nobody likes going backward and that's a legitimate concern.

S2007S · Dec 22, 2009

Quote from Kassz007:

Here's a thought for you doom and gloomers - the USA will not collapse. Weaken? Absolutely. Collapse? Hardly. The fact that the USA will not be head and shoulders above every other country in the world is not a collapse. It may seem like it to you Americans who have got used to being the lone superpower in the world since the Soviet collapse, but the USA will not be finished. The USA will simply slow down their advancement as other countries (China, Japan, Russia, Brazil, etc.) catch up.

It's not the end of the world, as much as many of you would like to believe.

Weaken??? Everyone was crying when they saw the economy weaken, that's why they threw trillions at the problem, seems that anytime there is a hint of a recession the fed steps in to prevent it, meanwhile the best thing for a raging economy is a small minor recession here and there, something just to clean the system a bit. The reason for this crisis is because of the tactics they set forth in 2001-2002 to prevent the last recession the economy was headed for. Look at what they are doing now, they are printing like mad, creating what everyone believes to be the turnaround plan, believe me its not, you will see in the years to come the problems this economy is going to go through.

Kassz007 · Dec 22, 2009

Quote from Angrycat:

I don't think it's an issue of "superpower", I think the issue for most Americans is a slide in the very high standard of living.

With the rise of socialism and fascism in the United States, the standard of living will decline. Nobody likes going backward and that's a legitimate concern.

I don't mean superpower in a military sense, but in an economic and technological sense (standard of living). I don't believe the standard of living will significantly decline in the USA, but rather will remain stagnate while other nations see their standard of living increase. The rest of the world will catch up to the USA. This is far from the USA will collapse scenario that many are so sure of.

Just some food for thought from a glass is half full type of thinker.

Kassz007 · Dec 22, 2009

Quote from S2007S:

Weaken??? Everyone was crying when they saw the economy weaken, that's why they threw trillions at the problem, seems that anytime there is a hint of a recession the fed steps in to prevent it, meanwhile the best thing for a raging economy is a small minor recession here and there, something just to clean the system a bit. The reason for this crisis is because of the tactics they set forth in 2001-2002 to prevent the last recession the economy was headed for. Look at what they are doing now, they are printing like mad, creating what everyone believes to be the turnaround plan, believe me its not, you will see in the years to come the problems this economy is going to go through.

If this policy was solely being implemented by the USA, you could have a case for a country severely in trouble. But the entire world is on the same path due to globalization. It is globalization that will allow other countries to catch up to the USA.

Are you trying to say that this recession would have been minor had the government not stepped in?

SNBthetrue · Dec 22, 2009

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Yeah too stupid or naive to believe that a form of money that had been used for 5000 years would still work.

you don't see the suffering that it bring in people lives everywhere it's used ? the total inutility of everything it accomplished ? like the pyrammids

Quote from Kassz007:

Here's a thought for you doom and gloomers - the USA will not collapse. Weaken? Absolutely. Collapse? Hardly. The fact that the USA will not be head and shoulders above every other country in the world is not a collapse. It may seem like it to you Americans who have got used to being the lone superpower in the world since the Soviet collapse, but the USA will not be finished. The USA will simply slow down their advancement as other countries (China, Japan, Russia, Brazil, etc.) catch up.

It's not the end of the world, as much as many of you would like to believe.

You should read about liquidity of asset in a global digitalized world... none needs a castle to be happy.. you know the snail...

Quote from peilthetraveler:

EVERY fiat money system in the last 2000 years (since Rome) has failed. About 3800 fiat money systems have existed since then and they have all ended badly. What makes any of you think that this time its different? The most powerful nations in the world had tried this over and over and each time it destroyed the power of their nations.

3800

... and they still keep trying... so uncreative.
You are right... you know the story will always repet it self, like a big cycle... only this time nuclear waste, antibiotics, GMO and nano particules in the wild...

The curious thing is this tendency that have all the nations to fall in this trap... Humans are the same everywhere

... or is it a plan that the weak nations use on the most powerful nations? Or the own weakness of the powerful nation to be overconfident ?

Quote from intradaybill:

If you attack A, please suggest option B. Meaning that:

What is the alternative to fiat money? Please, don't tell me it is gold. Someone must be either too stupid ot too naive to think that going back to gold is a solution when it is mostly owned by the same people who own the oil wells or by those who have the biggest trade surplus. Do you knwo what that would mean? Immediate starvation for a good part of the world or in the best case slavery.

Thank you for your wiseness.

The Only positive of Gold is it's inealterability.

However it has so many downside :

it's relatively scarce ( can't expand in a exponential economy quickly enough )
It's heavy...
it's "dirty" it doesn't bring life. Mining is "trash"...
it can be corner easly so providing the best opportunity for wars... BAD...

Quote from TheGoonior:

Not being an economist, I'd be interested to hear of an example system that works or has worked on a large scale.

Always looking around, the answer is already there...

Quote from traderjb:

Are you talking about his suggestion of handing over the Fed to computers?

Please Imagine the weakness for an economy, it make everything so volatile and fragile... Nothing "real"... and imagine the big Bug...^^

Quote from pspr:

Fiat money is the only solution that could possibly work in today's world because there is no one valuable asset that could substitute for wealth and be portable. Gold and silver could work in a smaller world but what single asset today has enough intrinsic value, yet is abundent, can be standardized and is accepted world wide? Don't say, "oil". I don't have room for thousands of barrels of oil.

The real problem isn't the currency. It is the creation of currency and the government deficit spending that is the problem.

Thank you pspr. Before finishing reading you I had the answer...

WATER, clean pure water !

That's the best basment for a currency. why ?

there is no scarcity
quantity is virually illimited H2O
Clean for the earth
Safe to transport, exploit,
easy to create

However I don't have the technical knowledge to see exactly how to make it work proplery. But I strongly know that it's the best way. Furthermore it's uncorneable, and in case of total collapse it as still an high value. It bring total privacy. Man that's the true world dream a society based on water, consumming, producing, trashing and cleaning water... A real cycle... And it doesn't kill trees !

the1 · Dec 22, 2009

You cannot pay off a credit card with another credit card and expect to stay solvent for long. If you do then you have to get at least one more job to pay down the increasing debt. That's the predicament the US Government is getting into. They have solved their problem with their credit line by getting a higher credit line. That means you and I have to get a 2nd job. Only problem....most folks can't find even one job. Trouble will be looming. Bad things happen when interest rates go to extremes.

Quote from S2007S:

Weaken??? Everyone was crying when they saw the economy weaken, that's why they threw trillions at the problem, seems that anytime there is a hint of a recession the fed steps in to prevent it, meanwhile the best thing for a raging economy is a small minor recession here and there, something just to clean the system a bit. The reason for this crisis is because of the tactics they set forth in 2001-2002 to prevent the last recession the economy was headed for. Look at what they are doing now, they are printing like mad, creating what everyone believes to be the turnaround plan, believe me its not, you will see in the years to come the problems this economy is going to go through.

Pension_Admin · Dec 22, 2009

Imagine employers start paying their employees with canned goods and precious metals (or gift cards).

Thank God for fiat money!