"Why won't God heal amputees?"
- Thread starter lkh
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Hmm. On second thought, if God preordains people and their actions, then aren't the 10 commandments a tad...superfluous?
Of course, as an atheist who has not looked at a bible in decades, I have no idea if you're just joshing with us.
One could make a similar defense of socialism -- that socialism cannot be blamed for the offenses committed in its name.
And yet in his excellent work The Road to Serfdom, Hayek shows us how socialism in theory ultimately leads to totalitarianism in practice, regardless of best intentions.
Intentions don't matter nearly as much as results. This is one reason why the Catholic church must take at least a portion of responsibility for pedophile priests.
It is not just the priests who are hypocrites; it is the church as well for promoting such a damned goofy doctrine. What do you expect when you lay down rules in direct conflict with basic biological functions?
How does the Catholic church NOT expect a disproportionate number of sexual fringe cases in the pulpits, when the rules exclude normal, healthy males from consideration in the first place... and turn the healthy males who do apply into ticking time bombs?
In my opinion, lifelong celibacy is a voluntary form of self-mutilation. Not physically, per se, but psychologically... which is almost the same thing. It is a jacked up form of asceticism.
And that is one of the really screwed up things about religion.
Out of service to a deity or a movement, religion asks you to do some really unhealthy shit. It asks you not to think and behave rationally, but to frequently behave IRRATIONALLY... at significant danger of psychological harm to yourself.. and to do so as a badge of piety.
There are countless cases where the good intentions of religion lead to disastrous results. I spent many years in the church; I have seen this first hand.
For example, you know who the most fucked up kids in the country are? Pastor's kids. This is a stone cold fact. I have known multiple PKs, and frequently they've been more "hardcore" than my non-religious friends in terms of living on the wild side. Some of them obeyed their parents like good little mice.. right up until the day they ran off and married a weirdo or OD'd on some really bad drug.
Why are PK's so jacked up? Two reasons:
1) Being the pastor's kid, they get an overdose of psychological pressure and heavy-handed bullshit. All that moralizing, combined with the pressure of "looking" and "acting right," takes a heavy toll.
2) Pastor's kids tend to develop a love / hate relationship with the church, because the church becomes a greedy surrogate sibling. If you're a PK, chances are your dad doesn't have time for you. All his time and energy are being sucked up by the church, and all the sad sacks in the congregation who are constantly monopolizing him. This has a detrimental effect on family life.
The devastating profile of PKs is probably one reason Catholics don't want their holy men having families. But when you deny the basic functions of sexual expression and stable relationships, you get more head cases. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
The solution, imho, isn't exactly a solution. It's more like a cross-application of Hayek's Road to Serfdom to the problem of the church.
These little religious fiefdoms tend to encourage codependence on the part of followers and totalitarianism on the part of leaders, which in turn leads to all the bullshit you see: the vast, quavering seas of deluded leaders and deluded followers, evidencing all the textbook psychological problems of an unhealthy arrangement in which there is no holy spirit duct tape to keep things copacetic.
The answer? Just say no to crack. Religious crack, that is. Stop believing that one guy can fix you and 500 other people's problems. Stop believing that you can dump your life into someone else's lap and have all your problems solved by magic wish. Seems simple, dunnit? Take responsibility for your own life. Don't expect results without logical effort. How simple is that?
And one last question... how many "real" Christians are there anyway? Could they fill a Superdome? How about a Starbucks?
We keep hearing about how the vast majority of peeps with fish on their bumpers aren't actually genuine representatives of the faith.
Well god damn brother, if you cut out all the fakers and wannabes, it seems there are fewer "real" Christians than there are Scientologists. Or maybe Raelians for that matter.
Yeah. But not even the onion can beat Benny Hinn's jet.
Excellent. Yet it literally has nothing to do with Christianity as defined by Jesus. That's just something the Catholics made up by extrapolation. Since Jesus and the disciples didn't seem to marry, neigther Paul, they figured it was what "God" wants. Yet Paul lays out in detail the requirements of someone who is to take a leadership role among christians. And it doesn't exclude marriage. Nor healthy committed relationships.
Yes, Catholics have to take responsibility for outcrop of their extrabiblical doctrine. I find it comical that many catholics are not storming the gates of the Holy See over it.
Yes, that is a significant problem that can't be overlooked. Yet nothing as far as I can tell in Christianity, as defined by Jesus or in the NT, asks you to do some really unhealthy... poo poo.
But you might say, " but look here, isn't Jesus telling you to hate your mother and father, etc in Luke 14:26?" That would be some really unhealthy... poo poo. If that were actually the case.
Anyway...
Yep. I couldn't agree more. I've seen it and know it to be true almost invariably. In fact, one of my friends is a PK and after having known him for 17 years, I have to say he's still mal-adjusted.
Can't help but to agree with this. Most of the Christians I know are plagued with this problem. They've turned what should have been an individual thing into a group thing. Christianity was never meant to be a group thing with all this religious structure and layers of rules. It was meant as a personal thing to be shared, taught, but never enforced. Sexual modesty and committed, loving monogamous relationships were its hallmark. Rasing childern in love and as if they were a gift bestowed and not in an austere, abusive household were its precepts.
Awh well. Poo poo happened.
As it says, many are called few are chosen.
Or...
Take the parable of the soils for instance. 4 seeds, only one went on to bear fruit.
Not saying Christians are to be "perfect." Just saying that the doctrines many blindly embrace are anything but Christian.
How Christian is it to support or endorse warfare? Jesus's Sermon on the Mount would instantly expose the hypocrisy of many so called Christians today.