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"Why won't God heal amputees?"
- Thread starter lkh
- Start date
Quote from thunderinvalley:
the obvious reason is there is no god
the simplest explanation is often the correct one
:/
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yes...agree.
twice in the same night!! :eek:
but to be clear...
by "god" i mean: the god of dogma...the god of human mythology.
yet, the horizon of my own arrogance is this: i DO remain "humble before mystery".
as Hamlet said to Horatio..."There are more things in heaven and earth than are even dreamt of in our philosophies."
i think that's a safe bet.
Quote from james_bond_3rd:
What you are saying simply reflects your own ignorance. There have been many scientific studies that showed strong negative correlation between religious beliefs and social well-being. For example, a very recent one was published on Journal of Religion and Society (whose publisher is a Jesuit university)
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
It clearly shows statistically significant negative correlation between religious belief (Christianity in this case) and crime rate, teenage pregnancy, abortion, and sexually transmitted diseases among all industrialized nations. In particular, the US has the highest percentage of people who go to church regularly by a large margin, and also the highest abortion rate and sexually transmited diseases.
In fact, within the US you can also see the same kind of negative correlation. The abortion rate within the bible belt red states is much higher than the less religious blue states.
If anything, religion at best has not helped.
Just finished a study actually and most studies stated the contrary. Overwhelming evidence that those with strong religious influence are less likely to violate social norms. They are also much more likely to exhibit acts of charity.
Problem is that it is very hard to guage the positive impact of religion on society because we need to be able to compare it to a society without religion. Such cultures are extremely rare. Also, positive actions spurred by religious convictions are usually done in private, while the negative actions of a religious person are kept on record.
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ? My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends. Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends, ...
:/
:/
Was Jesus the son of God?
The centerpiece of the Christian faith is Jesus. The life, death and resurrection of Jesus are celebrated by Christians all around the world. Jesus' miracles prove to Christians that Jesus is the son of God. As discussed in chapter 14, Jesus' death is the human sacrifice that finally appeased God.
Jesus claims in many places in the Bible, and in many different ways, that he is God. For example, in John chapter 4, verse 25 we find this:
The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when he comes, he will show us all things." Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he."
In John Chapter 10, verse 24 we find this:
So the Jews gathered round him and said to him, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness to me."
In John chapter 14, verse 8 we find this:
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father."
And so on. It is clear that Jesus claimed to be God.
According to Jesus, his miracles prove that he is God. For example, in Matthew chapter 11 we find this:
Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, "Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?" And Jesus answered them, "Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them."
What we have here is a man who says that he is God, and who claims that his miracles prove that he is God. The question that any normal person would ask is simple: Is this true? Is Jesus God, or was Jesus a normal human being?
The centerpiece of the Christian faith is Jesus. The life, death and resurrection of Jesus are celebrated by Christians all around the world. Jesus' miracles prove to Christians that Jesus is the son of God. As discussed in chapter 14, Jesus' death is the human sacrifice that finally appeased God.
Jesus claims in many places in the Bible, and in many different ways, that he is God. For example, in John chapter 4, verse 25 we find this:
The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when he comes, he will show us all things." Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he."
In John Chapter 10, verse 24 we find this:
So the Jews gathered round him and said to him, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness to me."
In John chapter 14, verse 8 we find this:
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father."
And so on. It is clear that Jesus claimed to be God.
According to Jesus, his miracles prove that he is God. For example, in Matthew chapter 11 we find this:
Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, "Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?" And Jesus answered them, "Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them."
What we have here is a man who says that he is God, and who claims that his miracles prove that he is God. The question that any normal person would ask is simple: Is this true? Is Jesus God, or was Jesus a normal human being?
Quote from Cache Landing:
Just finished a study actually and most studies stated the contrary. Overwhelming evidence that those with strong religious influence are less likely to violate social norms. They are also much more likely to exhibit acts of charity.
Problem is that it is very hard to guage the positive impact of religion on society because we need to be able to compare it to a society without religion. Such cultures are extremely rare. Also, positive actions spurred by religious convictions are usually done in private, while the negative actions of a religious person are kept on record.
Your study results do not pass the smell test. Two points:
1. It is estimated that 80% of americans "believe in GOD". The united states also has the highest percentage of people in prisons,the highest murder rates and the highest abortion rates. Clearly religion in america does not stop people from violating social norms.
2. The money. According to most religious teaching christians are encouraged to give 10% of their earnings to the religion. If 10% of a nations gross national product is wasted keeping a superstition going just think how much real benefit to society could happen if the money were spent on education or health care.
Please dont try to tell me that the churches do good with their money. I am privy to a large churches finances. 90% of the money goes to pay salaries and pay for fancy new church buildings.
Quote from lkh:
Your study results do not pass the smell test. Two points:
1. It is estimated that 80% of americans "believe in GOD". The united states also has the highest percentage of people in prisons,the highest murder rates and the highest abortion rates. Clearly religion in america does not stop people from violating social norms.
First off it wasn't my study. Mine was merely a compilation of many others from sociological journals.
We have the highest % people in prison because it costs money to keep people in prison and we are one of the only ones willing to put forth that kind of effort. We aren't even in the top 20 countries for murder per capita. And abortion is very much affected by technological availability. Anyway, we aren't even in the top 10 for professional abortions, which don't account for coat hanger abortions in less affluent countries. It can also be argued that we keep better records than many other countries.
2. The money. According to most religious teaching christians are encouraged to give 10% of their earnings to the religion. If 10% of a nations gross national product is wasted keeping a superstition going just think how much real benefit to society could happen if the money were spent on education or health care.
Please dont try to tell me that the churches do good with their money. I am privy to a large churches finances. 90% of the money goes to pay salaries and pay for fancy new church buildings.
Christian scripture forecasted this type of situation. IOW, churches established to make men rich. Maybe you should quit lumping all religion together and look at the idea that there might actually be one that is correct. If there is, then you're basing your opinions on teachings of the false churches that christian scripture specifically warns against.
Quote from lkh:
Was Jesus the son of God?
The centerpiece of the Christian faith is Jesus. The life, death and resurrection of Jesus are celebrated by Christians all around the world. Jesus' miracles prove to Christians that Jesus is the son of God. As discussed in chapter 14, Jesus' death is the human sacrifice that finally appeased God.
Jesus claims in many places in the Bible, and in many different ways, that he is God. For example, in John chapter 4, verse 25 we find this:
The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when he comes, he will show us all things." Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he."
In John Chapter 10, verse 24 we find this:
So the Jews gathered round him and said to him, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness to me."
In John chapter 14, verse 8 we find this:
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father."
And so on. It is clear that Jesus claimed to be God.
According to Jesus, his miracles prove that he is God. For example, in Matthew chapter 11 we find this:
Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, "Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?" And Jesus answered them, "Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them."
What we have here is a man who says that he is God, and who claims that his miracles prove that he is God. The question that any normal person would ask is simple: Is this true? Is Jesus God, or was Jesus a normal human being?
Where is there not God? Why do you make distinctions between "normal humans" and God? So there is a unity. There is one whole. We are one.
Therefore I said, "Ye are gods, and the things I do you shall do also, and even greater things".
Yet I also said, "Why do you call me good? There is but one who is good, and that is my Father in heaven".
If you wish to understand the paradox, you may begin to think of yourselves as "God seeds" cast upon the Earth. Some of the seeds fall by the wayside, and some on rocky soil. But some fall on fertile ground and bear fruit, ten, a hundred, a thousand fold.
In other words, you are being made INTO gods from seed form, as it is written, "Let us make Man into our image and likeness". And does not a seed contain all the potential - all the codes - to grow into its archetype? "Christos" is an archetypal body that is available to you as you grow into the full archetype. It is your mission to join your "physical" body to your Overself, and your Overself to your Christos, like two triangles coming together to form the Star of David. When you do this, you join the "Jesus" to the "Christ" and become "Sons of God". This is a title with privileges, abilities, and responsibilities. Let's just say that this new body is anything but gravitationally trapped light.
Not only that, the archetype is open-ended, and if you saw just the archetype, you would consider all your trials and tribulations worth it. Yet the archetype represents the Father, and that is why I said to Philip, "He who has seen me has seen the Father".
I do not differ from you in potential. What I am, you are, simply as you unfold it and break out of the shells that keep you earthbound.
"Only begotten" is a title given to those who serve their specie well in the dust world creations such as this world. With it comes special privileges. I work closely with YHWH for redemption and liberation of fallen universes. I serve with many others in the "Office of the Christ" along with Michael and 144,000 other Ascended Masters who have come before and after me to liberate this world by teaching and example.
Shifting your perspective, as did Copernicus, there are many worlds, many universes that are being redeemed by the Office of the Christ. And it would not be right for me to take all the credit. There are many "Only begotten", and many who assist them.
Let me shift your perspective one more time. Why are you here? What purpose is this physical embodiment?
Simply put: by decree of your Overself -- YOU! -- you chose to "descend" a seed/soul into physical embodiment...with the help of the Elohim Creator Gods and many angels. Why did you do that? Ever hear of the Holy Grail? It is this physical body, and you WANT it! And by cosmic Law, whatever descends, must ascend with the evolved body. You cannot ascend without it. In other words, yes, you must take it with you. In other words, you came to get a unique bio-physical body and add it to your collection. The soul is that part of you that is growing in consciousness through many embodiments...until you realize a few things. This is self-realization. And when you get your act together, you can unite your physical "booty" with your Overself to become more of a multi-dimensional "free agent" .
In the bigger picture, there are some jealous types who will do everything within their power to keep you from becoming a free agent. And there are others, such as I, who are doing everything within our power, and within cosmic Law, to bring about your liberation into this free agency. They want to keep your soul perpetually incarnating upon the wheel of karmic law...perpetually under the sun, scorched and thirsty. They know that in order to perpetuate the status quo, they must keep you ignorant of your Overself and the divine hierarchy. How are they doing so far?
Your logic is very dry. This thread is a barren desert wasteland with only death to look forward to. Come to me you who thirst, and I will give you Living Water.
Namaste,
Jesus
Quote from Cache Landing:
Just finished a study actually and most studies stated the contrary. Overwhelming evidence that those with strong religious influence are less likely to violate social norms. They are also much more likely to exhibit acts of charity.
Problem is that it is very hard to guage the positive impact of religion on society because we need to be able to compare it to a society without religion. Such cultures are extremely rare. Also, positive actions spurred by religious convictions are usually done in private, while the negative actions of a religious person are kept on record.
Showing your ignorance again. Most east Asian countries are societies essentially without a religion. Confucious teachings are a set of moral values without invoking a God. Taoism is a Way of Nature but the Way is more of "guidance" than religion. Budhism is close to be what we call a religion, but there is no centralized church. By and large east Asian populations are not religious. So yes you can make such comparisons. In fact, such comparisons have been made in many studies. In every one of them the more religious society shows worse statistics in almost every aspect.
Quote from james_bond_3rd:
Showing your ignorance again. Most east Asian countries are societies essentially without a religion. Confucious teachings are a set of moral values without invoking a God. Taoism is a Way of Nature but the Way is more of "guidance" than religion. Budhism is close to be what we call a religion, but there is no centralized church. By and large east Asian populations are not religious. So yes you can make such comparisons. In fact, such comparisons have been made in many studies. In every one of them the more religious society shows worse statistics in almost every aspect.
I used to live there. When was the last time you were there? Budhism and Taoism are as much a religion as anything else. Confusionism never has claimed to be a religion, but most confusionistic cultures do have an underlying religion. Saying that East Asian cultures are without religious beliefs is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. It was very rare that I met someone who didn't believe in god.
In everything that I've read, crime rate actually seems to be more correlated with technological advancement, standard of living, and our supposed inalienable rights (e.g. right to bear arms).
Anyway, the point is that a huge majority of people in the world believe in god to the extent that they believe they will be rewarded for living a "good" life. True, there are extremists and extreme religions which tend to have a more disruptive force due to religious disagreements. But when was the last time you read a study about how many good things people do as a result of religious beliefs. Fact is, it is a very hard thing to guage while crime is a very easy thing to guage.
BTW, it should be noted that all this religious conflict noted on this thread was specifically predicted in christian scripture.