"Why won't God heal amputees?"

[Bruto Blukowski]

Quote from lkh:

At some point, Christians have to accept the evidence that we all can see: Either God wrote the Bible, or he did not. If he did, then he is wrong, and we should reject the Bible and him. If he did not, then we should reject the Bible.

This fact should now be apparent to every woman, and to any rational man.

For the Chief Musician. The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt. They have done abominable works. There is none who does good. Psalm 14:1


Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Timothy 2
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

 

[lkh]

Why does God massacre millions of children?


For most people, the last three chapters offer all the evidence that they need to prove to themselves that God did not write the Bible. Clearly, an all-loving God cannot be a huge proponent of slavery. Nor can an all-loving God be an advocate of both animal and human sacrifice. Nor can an all-loving God be a flagrant misogynist. Therefore, since the Bible specifies that God loves slavery and animal/human sacrifice and that God hates women, it is easy for most people to conclude that primitive men wrote the Bible rather than God.

However, if you need additional evidence, then we can approach the Bible from another angle and reach the same conclusion.

In the book of Matthew, chapter 2, mixed into the Christmas story, the Bible describes an amazing massacre of thousands of babies:

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
Think about the thousands of families who were affected by this massacre. The Bible describes their suffering: they wept and could not be comforted. Of course they could not be comforted. If you are a parent, you know exactly how distraught you would feel if an agent of the government came to your door one morning and slaughtered your children.
Why did God do this? Being all-knowing, God knew that this would happen. In fact, according to the Bible, God acted on his knowledge. But why would God take the time to reach down to earth and save his own child, and then allow all of these thousands of other innocent children to die? If God is love, where is the love in that? How could a loving God willfully allow such massive suffering without taking action?

Think about how easy it would have been for God to prevent all of this suffering:

God could have appeared to Herod in a dream and told him not to kill these children.
God could have killed Herod.
God could have guided the wise men so that Herod would not have felt mocked by them.
God could have protected the babies.
God could have spoken to the murdering soldiers and turned them away from the task.
God could have sent all of these families to Egypt when he sent Jesus and his family there.
God could have made it so that no male children besides Jesus were born during that time.
God could have changed history so that Herod was not king.
It is easy to come up with thousands of solutions, yet God did nothing.
God, by sending his son to earth, was the direct cause of this massacre. And God, as an all-powerful and all-knowing being, knew that it would happen and had the power to prevent it. In fact, God did take direct action to save Jesus. Instead of saving the thousands of other children, however, God stood by and watched as they were slaughtered.

It is interesting to note that this is not the only place in the Bible where God causes thousands of children to die. In the book of Exodus chapter 12 verse 28, God writes about one of his early massacres:

So the people of Israel did just as the LORD had commanded through Moses and Aaron. And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.
Here the death of the children is directly at the hand of God.
In Isaiah chapter 13, God paints this word picture:

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.
What a lovely image.
In Jeremiah chapter 49, verse 20, God paints a similar picture:

Therefore hear the plan which the LORD has made against Edom and the purposes which he has formed against the inhabitants of Teman: Even the little ones of the flock shall be dragged away; surely their fold shall be appalled at their fate. At the sound of their fall the earth shall tremble; the sound of their cry shall be heard at the Red Sea.
In Hosea chapter 13, God paints a similar picture:
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
In Numbers chapter 31, God paints a similar picture:
Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? Behold, these caused the people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously against the LORD in the matter of Pe'or, and so the plague came among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Here Moses, acting as an agent of God, specifies that thousands of male babies and children be killed, as well as thousands of women. The Bible states in verse 35 that the captured women numbered "thirty-two thousand persons in all, women who had not known man by lying with him." This was not a small attack. Tens of thousands men, women and children were massacred.

 

[lkh]

In Deuteronomy Chapter 3 we find this:

Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og king of Bashan with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. The LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon." So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them—the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city—men, women and children. But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.
They massacred all the men, women and children in 60 cities at God's request.
Then there is Noah's flood, in which God massacred every single child on the face of the earth.

Doesn't it feel odd to find all of this material in the Bible? Especially the quote from Moses in Numbers 31. You may recall that the sixth commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill."

What does God have against children? Why would an all-loving, all-knowing being act in this way? In the case of Herod's massacre, a religious person might say, "God had to do it to fulfill a prophecy in the Bible." But that makes no sense, because God could have left the prophecy out.

A normal person, after reading passages like these, is left first with a deep sense of disgust. Any normal human being knows that these acts are monstrous. What we are seeing here is not a loving God, but instead a demonic executioner working at a massive scale. Why would anyone worship this appalling monster?

A normal person then asks the obvious question: Did God actually write these verses in the Bible? Would God actually condone these acts?

I think we can all agree that a loving God would not condone these acts. Therefore, these parts of the Bible could not have been written by God. It should be obvious to all of us that God did not write the Bible.

It is appropriate at this point to speak to Christians, especially the "casual Christians" who go to church occasionally because it seems like the "right thing to do." Most Christians have never read the Bible. They have no idea that the God of the Bible is a huge proponent of slavery, or that God hates women, or that God finds the annihilation of small children so enthralling. Should we, as human beings living in the modern world, be worshipping a God like this?

 

[Cache Landing]

Quote from lkh:

Have i upset your security blanket? There are almost 1300 page views. People are reading and perhaps reflecting on what it all means. All i can hope to accomplish is to save a few minds from the clutches of superstition that religion is.

The real question is...

If religion is merely a superstition, why do people need to be saved from it? What harm is it inflicting upon society?

Of course you are going to predictably list occurances in which some group of proclaimed christians committed some atrocity. The economist however, would look at the total cost/benefit and it would become quite clear that religion benefits society more than it hurts society. So, from an economic standpoint, religion is worth having around. But for some reason, you see religion as a detriment to the well-being of society.

A few things can almost certainly be concluded from your redundant rants.

1) In ultimate hypocracy you instruct people to view the concept of religion without bias, when you have obviously never done so.

2) You've managed to find a very ill-informed christian to quote, and are basing your conclusions on his uneducated statements. This is equivalent to asking a high school student to defend his opinions in a presidential debate.

3) You have little understanding of the history of the bible.

4) If on the very last day of your life the entire world realizes that religion is merely superstition, and you are compared to a true follower of Christ; society will be more appreciative of the Christian's life spent helping others live, than of your life trying to convince others of their ignorance. IOW, what you are doing has no positive consequence.

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from Cache Landing:-LKH

The real question is...

If religion is merely a superstition, why do people need to be saved from it? What harm is it inflicting upon society?

Of course you are going to predictably list occurances in which some group of proclaimed christians committed some atrocity. The economist however, would look at the total cost/benefit and it would become quite clear that religion benefits society more than it hurts society. So, from an economic standpoint, religion is worth having around. But for some reason, you see religion as a detriment to the well-being of society.

A few things can almost certainly be concluded from your redundant rants.

1) In ultimate hypocracy you instruct people to view the concept of religion without bias, when you have obviously never done so.

2) You've managed to find a very ill-informed christian to quote, and are basing your conclusions on his uneducated statements. This is equivalent to asking a high school student to defend his opinions in a presidential debate.

3) You have little understanding of the history of the bible.

4) If on the very last day of your life the entire world realizes that religion is merely superstition, and you are compared to a true follower of Christ; society will be more appreciative of the Christian's life spent helping others live, than of your life trying to convince others of their ignorance. IOW, what you are doing has no positive consequence.

=============
LKH;
TRY more than a superficial study when it comes to the scriptures & supernatural.

I wish God was as smart as you .
Read letter of Acts, new testament. God did kill Herod , but I just wish God was as as smart as you are , he would have done it sooner , like you wanted



Thou shalt not murder is a better understanding of hebrew word ''kill''
Apparantly you have a real disbelief on capital punishment/war.
Wish Lord would consult you more before he works /judges & works miracles:[including creative miracles]

Matthew7;7 again

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from Cache Landing:

The real question is...

If religion is merely a superstition, why do people need to be saved from it? What harm is it inflicting upon society?

Of course you are going to predictably list occurances in which some group of proclaimed christians committed some atrocity. The economist however, would look at the total cost/benefit and it would become quite clear that religion benefits society more than it hurts society. So, from an economic standpoint, religion is worth having around. But for some reason, you see religion as a detriment to the well-being of society.

A few things can almost certainly be concluded from your redundant rants.

1) In ultimate hypocracy you instruct people to view the concept of religion without bias, when you have obviously never done so.

2) You've managed to find a very ill-informed christian to quote, and are basing your conclusions on his uneducated statements. This is equivalent to asking a high school student to defend his opinions in a presidential debate.

3) You have little understanding of the history of the bible.

4) If on the very last day of your life the entire world realizes that religion is merely superstition, and you are compared to a true follower of Christ; society will be more appreciative of the Christian's life spent helping others live, than of your life trying to convince others of their ignorance. IOW, what you are doing has no positive consequence.

What you are saying simply reflects your own ignorance. There have been many scientific studies that showed strong negative correlation between religious beliefs and social well-being. For example, a very recent one was published on Journal of Religion and Society (whose publisher is a Jesuit university)
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
It clearly shows statistically significant negative correlation between religious belief (Christianity in this case) and crime rate, teenage pregnancy, abortion, and sexually transmitted diseases among all industrialized nations. In particular, the US has the highest percentage of people who go to church regularly by a large margin, and also the highest abortion rate and sexually transmited diseases.

In fact, within the US you can also see the same kind of negative correlation. The abortion rate within the bible belt red states is much higher than the less religious blue states.

If anything, religion at best has not helped.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Here is an excerpt from that study
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
"In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies (Figures 1-9). The most theistic prosperous democracy, the U.S., is exceptional, but not in the manner Franklin predicted. The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developed democracies, sometimes spectacularly so, and almost always scores poorly. The view of the U.S. as a “shining city on the hill” to the rest of the world is falsified when it comes to basic measures of societal health. Youth suicide is an exception to the general trend because there is not a significant relationship between it and religious or secular factors. No democracy is known to have combined strong religiosity and popular denial of evolution with high rates of societal health. Higher rates of non-theism and acceptance of human evolution usually correlate with lower rates of dysfunction, and the least theistic nations are usually the least dysfunctional. None of the strongly secularized, pro-evolution democracies is experiencing high levels of measurable dysfunction. In some cases the highly religious U.S. is an outlier in terms of societal dysfunction from less theistic but otherwise socially comparable secular developed democracies. In other cases, the correlations are strongly graded, sometimes outstandingly so."

 

[lkh]

Quote from Cache Landing:

The real question is...

If religion is merely a superstition, why do people need to be saved from it? What harm is it inflicting upon society?

All of the major wars going on right now have a religious component. I would consider the deaths of millions over religious differences harm, wouldn't you?

 

[lkh]

Reviewing the evidence about the Bible


In the last four chapters we have looked at dozens of Bible passages. We have found that God is a huge proponent of slavery, that God hates women, that God revels in the destruction of small children, and that God spells out detailed instructions for animal and human sacrifice. If you are a Christian, here is the important question that you should be asking yourself:

Do you believe that an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful, prayer-answering God wrote these passages in the Bible?
This question is incredibly important because of this fact:
There is no reason for you to believe that you have a soul, or that you will have eternal life after death, or that there is a heaven and hell, or that God answers prayers, or that God wrote the Ten Commandments, or that Jesus is resurrected, and so on, unless you believe that God wrote the Bible.
If you insist that God wrote the Bible so that you can believe in the Ten Commandments or eternal life, shouldn't you also be a proponent of slavery and a misogynist? It is the same book in both cases.
The point is simple. Can you imagine God sitting on his magnificent throne in heaven saying this?

"As the all-powerful, all-knowing creator of the universe, I shall write a book for my creation, and I shall call it The Bible. Let's see, what shall I put in it??? Well, I want to be SURE to write about my absolute endorsement of slavery in both the Old and the New Testaments -- slavery is very important to me and I want people buying and selling slaves for thousands of years. And I want to be CERTAIN that the book shows how much I hate women in both the Old and the New Testaments. And I can NOT forget the parts about animal and human sacrifice, because sacrifices are an essential element of every proper religion. I want people slaughtering animals, splattering their blood and then burning the carcasses on a stone altar because the aroma is pleasing to me. And I want to make human sacrifice the centerpiece of my worship. And I CERTAINLY need to include the juicy parts about child massacre in both the Old and the New Testaments. Baby killing is something that I will emphasize throughout this book because it is very important to me."
Do you believe this? Of course not. Yet, clearly, if God does exist and God wrote the Bible, this is in fact what God said to himself. You have seen with your own eyes the numerous passages in the Bible where God displays these tendencies. Confirm them yourself by looking them up in God's word.
An all-knowing, all-loving God could not have written such appalling verses into the Bible. It should be obvious to you that primitive men wrote this book, not God.

What should the non-Christians make of this?

If you are a Christian, and if you insist that God wrote or "inspired" the Bible, then there is a second question that you may want to consider:

Why do you worship this God? And why do you publicly and openly admit it?
Think about the non-Christians who live next door to you. They can read the Bible. Wouldn't it seem logical for people outside Christianity -- for example, the Muslims, the Hindus, the Buddhists and so on -- to look at you as a monster for worshipping such a being? By worshipping this God, giving him your money, etc., you show that you yourself must believe in slavery, misogyny, animal/human sacrifice and baby-killing. Do you not? All of these passages are right there in the Bible. Anyone can read them. By stating that you believe the Bible, are you not endorsing these passages? By worshipping this God, do you not show that you endorse his actions in the Bible? Why in the world would non-Christians want you openly spreading your messages from a slavery-condoning, woman-hating, sacrifice-loving, child-killing God?
A Christian would respond to this question with something like the following: "God is NOT a murderer! God does NOT kill babies! God does NOT hate women! God would NEVER do any of the things that you are talking about. God is LOVE. It says so in the Bible!" Such a person is ignoring the obvious. The slavery-condoning, woman-hating, sacrifice-loving, baby-killing verses are all there in the Bible plain as day. They would not be there unless God wanted them there. God is omnipotent. If God took the time to write the Bible, he would also take the time to protect its contents from corruption. If God wrote the Bible, then every word in it was placed there -- intentionally and purposefully -- by God himself.

It is not as though God has one slip of the tongue that might be misinterpreted as condoning slavery -- there are at least ten places in the Bible where God openly, unashamedly and absolutely endorses slavery. God does not "sort of hint" that he might dislike women -- God displays open animosity toward women in his words and deeds. God not only likes animal sacrifice -- he demands it, and gives explicit instructions for how it is to be done. God does not kill one or two children -- God openly massacres millions of children and admits it in writing.

This is the God of the Bible. This is the God that Christians worship.

Why is the Bible so irrelevant?

For many people, the last four chapters prove that God did not write the Bible. They prove it beyond the shadow of any doubt. It is painfully obvious: Primitive men wrote the Bible, not God.

But what if you need still more proof? If so, then here is a question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by God leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight?

Instead, opening the Bible inevitably creates a feeling of dumbfoundment. Have you ever noticed that? Instead of brilliance, much of the Bible contains nonsense. The topics of the previous several chapters, where we discussed the Bible's advocacy of slavery and animal sacrifice, the Bible's misogyny and so on, are excellent examples. But they are just the tip of the iceberg. You can open the Bible to almost any page and find nonsense instead of wisdom. Here are several examples:

Judges Chapter 4

But Jael, Heber's wife, picked up a tent peg and a hammer and went quietly to him while he lay fast asleep, exhausted. She drove the peg through his temple into the ground, and he died.
Genesis Chapter 19
Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
Genesis Chapter 38
Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord 's sight; so he put him to death also.
Judges Chapter 3
Ehud then approached him [the fat king] while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. Then Ehud went out to the porch; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them.
Judges Chapter 19
But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.
When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, "Get up; let's go." But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.

When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. Everyone who saw it said, "Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Think about it! Consider it! Tell us what to do!"

Joshua Chapter 10
When they had brought these kings to Joshua, he summoned all the men of Israel and said to the army commanders who had come with him, "Come here and put your feet on the necks of these kings." So they came forward and placed their feet on their necks.
Joshua said to them, "Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Be strong and courageous. This is what the Lord will do to all the enemies you are going to fight." Then Joshua struck and killed the kings and hung them on five trees, and they were left hanging on the trees until evening.