ddunbar, thanks for your explanations.
However, anything which comprises of "existing infinitely in all modes of existence"... presupposes existence is available to it. God needs existence to exist by whatever description you define God to be in.
Existence is existence. God is God otherwise we would not have the word. Ok define God as first cause, but you are only once again presupposing existence so that God can exist (or Did exist
) to be defined as the first cause. Even if God existed as the cause of existence (umm ), that still presupposes existence.
Existence is the totally essential primary principal for anything to first exist, not God. You were saying about first causes ???
Existence itself is THE only principal irreducible essential for ALL things to exist. God doesn't do it, "He" needs it to exist as much as you or I. Existence itself is the thing
Right, so are you saying God can or cannot exist because no cogent argument can be made? Nevertheless regardless of that, it will still have no bearing at all on whether God or not. Only existence will do that.Quote from ddunbar:
1. "God is" does not presuppose existence in the context of the discussion because I can't say "God." and make any congent arguments.
And in the context you put forward, God is a subset of Existence. Without it God doesn't exist.Quote from ddunbar:
a. God Existence.
b. Material existence.
In that case Material existence is a subset of God Existence.
You do agree you can't define God into existence??Quote from ddunbar:
So how to define God existence? An manner of being which comprises of existing infinitely and in all modes of existence.
However, anything which comprises of "existing infinitely in all modes of existence"... presupposes existence is available to it. God needs existence to exist by whatever description you define God to be in.
Defining God's abilities defines what God does or is. That defines God.Quote from ddunbar:
God can", doesn't define God but defines an ability of God.
But your defining of it has no authority over its actual existence. For it to actually exist it would necessitate existence itself not an explanation or definition.. No matter how much you define what it is capable of or what it is or does, - that will alter its actual state of existence not one bit. To define it as existing you must first above all , presuppose existence.Quote from ddunbar:
It's like saying Leprechauns dole out lucky charms which bring good luck to those who acquire them. I didn't define the Leprechaun but what a leprechaun is capable of. If I said that to someone, they would probably ask me to define what a leprechaun is. After all, everybody is after lucky charms. But if you don't know what a leprechaun is or where to find them, you are, out of luck.
Quote from ddunbar:
Yes, it would seem like you've got something there until God is defined as the first cause. In that vein, God is existence as existence is God.
Existence is existence. God is God otherwise we would not have the word. Ok define God as first cause, but you are only once again presupposing existence so that God can exist (or Did exist
) to be defined as the first cause. Even if God existed as the cause of existence (umm ), that still presupposes existence. Existence is the totally essential primary principal for anything to first exist, not God. You were saying about first causes ???
Existence itself is THE only principal irreducible essential for ALL things to exist. God doesn't do it, "He" needs it to exist as much as you or I. Existence itself is the thing