"Why won't God heal amputees?"

[nononsense]

ikh,

From a quick glance at your copious posts, it would appear that you imagine God to be some kind of civil servant at the Social Security Administration.

 

[lkh]

Quote from kjkent1:

God cannot answer with any statistical correlation because that would tend to make god's existence more likely than not. if god is measurable then god is natural, and if god is natural, then god can be dethroned by learning the techniques by which god does his miracles. thus, god cannot answer prayers except as random unprovable acts and still remain god.

There is the "God must remain hidden" argument. But, as mentioned in chapters 5 and 6, a hidden God would never incarnate himself, or publish a Bible, or part the Red Sea, or put rainbows in the clouds, so obviously God has no need or desire to hide.

 

[lkh]

Quote from nononsense:

ikh,

From a quick glance at your copious posts, it would appear that you imagine God to be some kind of civil servant at the Social Security Administration.

Actually i think God is a product of primitive mans imagination. God of the bible seems to be modeled after the cruel viscous kings that used to rule in the time the bible was written.
Why do you think God has never regenerated a limb?

 

[kjkent1]

Quote from lkh:

There is the "God must remain hidden" argument. But, as mentioned in chapters 5 and 6, a hidden God would never incarnate himself, or publish a Bible, or part the Red Sea, or put rainbows in the clouds, so obviously God has no need or desire to hide.

It's not that God must remain hidden. Rather it is that the evidence of God must remain beyond any possible scientific measurement or God ceases to be supernatural.

If it were possible to have measured the methodology by which God parted the Red Sea, then it would be possible to reproduce it. And, if it were possible to reproduce it, then there is no longer anything "God like" about the event -- it suddenly becomes just another engineering problem. Admittedly, a fabulously amazing event, but not a miracle.

A "natural" God, is merely a superintellectual entity whose powers are attainable by resort to super technology.

I certainly would not worship a natural God. I'd want to know why that entity was involving itself in my affairs. I'd want to do business with that God, but I'd also want that God out of my bedroom, because my procreational habits would be none of that God's business.

Personally, I wonder why intelligent religious people choose to worship their God. Many conservative thinkers are also religious. They seek to get human government out of their economic lives because they view the intrusion as a restraint on their freedoms and violative of the nation's underpinnings. Yet, these same people have no trouble whatsoever worshiping a God, who is in their business and lives every second of their existence.

I further wonder why we, as humans, admire representative democracy as the superior form of government for human affairs. God evidently has little interest for democracy in any form. God's system of government for the universe reminds me of Otto Preminger's line as commandant of Stalag 17, from the movie of the same name:

"There are two rules in this prison. Rule #1: Do what you are told, or you will be shot. Rule #2: There is no rule #2. Rule #1 covers everything."

To me, a God who sports such repressive qualities is not worthy of my worship. Fear -- yes. Worship -- no.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Personally, I wonder why intelligent religious people choose to worship their God.

Please explain.

Quote from kjkent1:

It's not that God must remain hidden. Rather it is that the evidence of God must remain beyond any possible scientific measurement or God ceases to be supernatural.

If it were possible to have measured the methodology by which God parted the Red Sea, then it would be possible to reproduce it. And, if it were possible to reproduce it, then there is no longer anything "God like" about the event -- it suddenly becomes just another engineering problem. Admittedly, a fabulously amazing event, but not a miracle.

A "natural" God, is merely a superintellectual entity whose powers are attainable by resort to super technology.

I certainly would not worship a natural God. I'd want to know why that entity was involving itself in my affairs. I'd want to do business with that God, but I'd also want that God out of my bedroom, because my procreational habits would be none of that God's business.

Personally, I wonder why intelligent religious people choose to worship their God. Many conservative thinkers are also religious. They seek to get human government out of their economic lives because they view the intrusion as a restraint on their freedoms and violative of the nation's underpinnings. Yet, these same people have no trouble whatsoever worshiping a God, who is in their business and lives every second of their existence.

I further wonder why we, as humans, admire representative democracy as the superior form of government for human affairs. God evidently has little interest for democracy in any form. God's system of government for the universe reminds me of Otto Preminger's line as commandant of Stalag 17, from the movie of the same name:

"There are two rules in this prison. Rule #1: Do what you are told, or you will be shot. Rule #2: There is no rule #2. Rule #1 covers everything."

To me, a God who sports such repressive qualities is not worthy of my worship. Fear -- yes. Worship -- no.

 

[kjkent1]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Personally, I wonder why intelligent religious people choose to worship their God.

Please explain.

Maybe I miscommunicated. I should have restricted this thought to worship of the traditional monotheistic deity who is characterized by being a paternalistic, judgmental overseer of creation.

Admittedly, there are other views of God that do not require this belief system. But, for the typical Christian, Jew or Muslim, God is for all practical purposes, a totalitarian. Worshiping a dictator and simultaneously advancing representative democracy as the preferred means of governing civilization seems contradictory to me.

Obviously, if God "is" God, then there's really nothing to argue about. Failure to play by the old or new testament God's rules will result in eternal damnation, so there's little margin in not observing the pronouncements of the Almighty.

For those who worship the more "hands off" Eastern God, the contradiction is less important -- perhaps unimportant. But, Eastern civilizations have not been characterized by a long history of democratic thinking.

Democracy runs from the Greeks to the Romans, fails to take hold in Britain, but springs back in the USA, and then returns to Western Europe, and is now found in India and a few other less influential locales. But, civilization for the most part is still run by authoritarian governments, regardless of the local religious practice. Those locales that match their governmental approach to their religious beliefs seem more consistent.

Not, that I have a preference for such consistence. I prefer a representative democracy. But, it still seems strange to me that a strict Christian/Jewish/Islamic fundamentalist would give any democratic government a moment's thought, because democracy is not part of that person's God's plan, from what I observe.

 

[hcour]

Ahhh, ya'll all complicate things. People have always believed in Gods and always will because:

1) We need to go on. We can't die. I mean, you know, really die. There has to be an afterlife. The alternative is not an option.
2) We need (seemingly) rational explanations for that which we can't understand.
3) We need Morality - The only possible way Hitler can exist is if he pays for his crimes in the afterlife, otherwise, if he is sharing the same fate as my Sainted Mother, Life is madness.

This is religion.

H

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from hcour:

Ahhh, ya'll all complicate things. People have always believed in Gods and always will because:

1) We need to go on. We can't die. I mean, you know, really die. There has to be an afterlife. The alternative is not an option.
2) We need (seemingly) rational explanations for that which we can't understand.
3) We need Morality - The only possible way Hitler can exist is if he pays for his crimes in the afterlife, otherwise, if he is sharing the same fate as my Sainted Mother, Life is madness.

This is religion.

H

hitler often comes up in debates about god. the fact is that hitler grew up as a christian and claimed to be doing gods work up until the end.

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

according to majority christian belief if hitler at the last second before his death had simply said "lord i repent of my sins" he is now in heaven but the 30 million jews he killed are now in hell being tortured for eternity because they didnt "believe" that jesus was god.
so it is entirely possible that hitler and your mother are in heaven having a chat right now, it it exists.

 

[nononsense]

Quote from lkh:

Actually i think God is a product of primitive mans imagination. God of the bible seems to be modeled after the cruel viscous kings that used to rule in the time the bible was written.
Why do you think God has never regenerated a limb?

Are you sure He never did? Jesus even resurrected people dead for several days. The writings say that the corpse was already smelling.

BTW, what will you tell God when He (probably) will ask you about the almost endless stream of mockery and nonsense you posted here? Better have the right answer ready. Jesus is unlikely to bother about you too: "Qui sedes ad dexteram Patris, miserere nobis". If you you don't come to Jesus and ask (in time), he will simply let you walk where you always wanted to go. That's what's called having a free will. You can rebel against God as much as you please. Accounts will be settled in due time. "Et iterum venturus est cum gloria, iudicare vivos et mortuos, cuius regni non erit finis."

 

[nononsense]

Quote from vhehn:

hitler often comes up in debates about god. the fact is that hitler grew up as a christian and claimed to be doing gods work up until the end.

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

according to majority christian belief if hitler at the last second before his death had simply said "lord i repent of my sins" he is now in heaven but the 30 million jews he killed are now in hell being tortured for eternity because they didnt "believe" that jesus was god.
so it is entirely possible that hitler and your mother are in heaven having a chat right now, it it exists.

vehn,

You badly need some elementary history lessons about Hitler. After you tackled that one, try to find out about what you call "majority christian belief" regarding hitler.

You sound like a kindergarten atheist.