Why won't gay people accept democracy ?

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Quote from oktiri:

You nailed it. EXACTLY, and that's what they should never be granted, the acceptance of society at large. Gayness is a perversion and until we have scientific proof (genetic marker or biologically grounded proof ). It should be tolerated and nothing more.

I agree strongly.

A friend of mine in the Illinois legislator put it succinctly, "homosexuals want to legitimize their lifestyle through marriage but half the people will always look at them as chromosome deficient deviates who suck dick and take it in the ass."

As a conservative I'm thankful to Hillary Clinton and the anti-same sex marriage lobby for one thing. Both campaigns have offered conclusive proof to mainstream America how in the tank biased to the far left the media has become. The Miami Herald endorsed SSM in Florida. Voters opposed homo marriage by a 62-38 margin. Since the election the Herald has printed no less than a half dozen editorials or op-eds deriding Florida voters for their "prejudice" and "lack of compassion." To find a voice against same-sex marriage in the MSM is like searching for a haystack needle. Hardly a surprise since as many of us already know-the media, Hollywood and academia not only suck cock but gladly and defiantly stick it up the ass of American values and mores.....

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Why is gayness, which we see in the animal kingdom, assumed to be a perversion until we have scientific proof that it actually is a perversion?

Why can't gayness just be considered something different, but not perverse?

There was a time when black men were not even considered human, a time when women were considered property...were those scientific conclusions?

I think you have it all wrong. I want to see scientific research that demonstrates that simply because a man is attracted to a man, or a woman to a woman, that it is a perversion against nature.

Homosexual behavior exists in nature in some animals naturally. Why is it to be assumed that in some small percentage of human population that gay tendency or homosexual sex is therefore unnatural and a perversion?

Again, I am suggesting we look at this from a purely scientific point of view and exclude religion and religious bias and prejudice if we are going to live in an advance and civilized society.

I still see no scientific evidence why gay marriage is going to lead to the downfall of an already corrupt and mostly failing institution known as marriage where 50% of straight marriages fail and 75% of spouses cheat on each other, and lord knows how much abuse of children and spouses takes place in the "normal" and "traditional" man/woman marriage.

Quote from oktiri:

You nailed it. EXACTLY, and that's what they should never be granted, the acceptance of society at large. Gayness is a perversion and until we have scientific proof (genetic marker or biologically grounded proof ). It should be tolerated and nothing more.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

So in your view boys who have been victims of male pedophilia were "asking for it"?

The per capita rate of Mm pedo sexual abuse is several times higher than Mf pedo assault.

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

So you are comparing yourself to a woman who was hit on at an early age by a man, and developed a fear of men?

Is that really your story?

Are you really afraid gay guys are going to rape you?

How often do you read a newspaper article about a normal guy getting raped by a gang or some big strong homosexual?

Doesn't wash, I still think you are afraid of your own gay shadow lurking in the closet...

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Even after the judicial and legislative branches took steps to outlaw racism, racism existed.

So why bother to take steps to legislate and have courts protect the rights of minority groups if the majority is still going to maintain their prejudice?

This is your argument against gay marriage. That we shouldn't look to the truth of a situation, simply because it won't change public opinion immediately?

We should do the right thing, that's the American way.

No way 50 years ago could Obama get elected, no way. It has not been the passage of laws and judicial decisions that opened the door directly for Obama to be electable, but those open door gradually and slowly gave people a chance to change their ignorant and unfounded point of view.

Change takes time, generations generally, but the same issues apply to the rights of gays as they have to blacks, women, or any other group that has been denied rights as citizens simply because of their color, their creed, or their sexual preference.

Change starts with accepting what is the right thing to do, keeping church and state separate.

If some gay church exists, that believes that Jesus Christ was a gay man, and was married to the appostles...does the government have a right to stop that church from preaching their message?

Why should the government or the people have a right to discriminate on issues on a religious foundation?

That seems to sun counter to the very principle of the formation of this country, religious freedom for everyone and anyone to practice their own religion.

So what if gays think Jesus was a gay man who married other gay men.

It changes his important message of peace, love, brotherhood, love of God, etc. not one iota.

Preventing people who actually love each other from marrying in any church that will marry them seems quite unconstitutional to me.

Having the government decide which religion should sanctify marriage seems even more unconstitutional to me.

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I agree strongly.

A friend of mine in the Illinois legislator put it succinctly, "homosexuals want to legitimize their lifestyle through marriage but half the people will always look at them as chromosome deficient deviates who suck dick and take it in the ass."

As a conservative I'm thankful to Hillary Clinton and the anti-same sex marriage lobby for one thing. Both campaigns have offered conclusive proof to mainstream America how in the tank l biased to the far left the media has become. The Miami Herald endorsed SSM in Florida. Voters opposed homo marriage by a 62-38 margin. Since the election the Herald has printed no less than a half dozen editorials or op-eds deriding Florida voters for their "prejudice" and "lack of compassion." To find a voice against same-sex marriage in the MSM is like searching for a haystack needle. Hardly a surprise since as many of us already know-the media, Hollywood and academia not only suck cock but gladly and defiantly stick it up the ass of American values and mores.....

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

75% of spouses cheating? In what world? And the actual divorce rate for first marriages is 41%. In an interesting stat-66% of divorced couples are childless.

http://www.divorcerate.org/

If you think gay couples are monogamous than you're willfully ignoring scientific data.

http://www.narth.com/docs/negotiated.html

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Why is gayness, which we see in the animal kingdom, assumed to be a perversion until we have scientific proof that it actually is a perversion?

Why can't gayness just be considered something different, but not perverse?

There was a time when black men were not even considered human, a time when women were considered property...were those scientific conclusions?

I think you have it all wrong. I want to see scientific research that demonstrates that simply because a man is attracted to a man, or a woman to a woman, that it is a perversion against nature.

Homosexual behavior exists in nature in some animals naturally. Why is it to be assumed that in some small percentage of human population that gay tendency or homosexual sex is therefore unnatural and a perversion?

Again, I am suggesting we look at this from a purely scientific point of view and exclude religion and religious bias and prejudice if we are going to live in an advance and civilized society.

I still see no scientific evidence why gay marriage is going to lead to the downfall of an already corrupt and mostly failing institution known as marriage where 50% of straight marriages fail and 75% of spouses cheat on each other, and lord knows how much abuse of children and spouses takes place in the "normal" and "traditional" man/woman marriage.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

No, the Catholic priests used their power both politically (through religion) and physically to abuse young children.

It was, and is wrong.

Abuse of power is politics at work, and sexual politics is implementing some type of power over someone's sexuality or for sexual purposes.

Does that mean a child who was abused by a priest, when he was powerless both psychologically and physically when he was a child should live in fear of any gay man who might proposition him as an adult?

Is that fear sufficient to cast the broad net of homophobia on those gay men who are not out trying to convert the heteros to their lifestyle?

The fear is unfounded by fact, as we don't see reports of gay men raping adult gay males who are both psychologically and physically strong enough to resist.

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

So in your view boys who have been victims of male pedophilia were "asking for it"?

The per capita rate of Mm pedo sexual abuse is several times higher than Mf pedo assault.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:


Preventing people who actually love each other from marrying in any church that will marry them seems quite unconstitutional to me.

Having the government decide which religion should sanctify marriage seems even more unconstitutional to me.

You cool with incestuous marriage?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

The children of Adam and Eve were incestuous, or the race would never have be able to progress.

Think about it, God setup a situation with the creation of Adam and Eve, having the same Father, then having children, brothers and sisters, who then had to procreate to perpetuate the species.

Medically, there is some decent research as to why incest is not good for the gene pool, but no, if people love each other for any reason and want to be married, and are of an age where they are able to make up their own mind, no, I don't object.

There simply is no science to support resisting it beyond the potential damage to the gene pool and progress of a society's physical and mental health.

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

You cool with incestuous marriage?

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

So you are comparing yourself to a woman who was hit on at an early age by a man, and developed a fear of men?

Is that really your story?

No, I wasn't making that comparison. Women expect to be hit on by men, even lesbians. It's called normalcy. Being hit on by some closeted gay is in no way normal, especially when I was fantasizing about girls 24/7 and just beginning to work up the courage to approach them.

Are you really afraid gay guys are going to rape you?

How often do you read a newspaper article about a normal guy getting raped by a gang or some big strong homosexual?

It happens all the time in our prisons, sad to say. You really are being deliberately obtuse about this issue. Go rent The Shawshank Redemption, it's a great movie on many levels and it deals with this very issue of homosexual rape.

Doesn't wash, I still think you are afraid of your own gay shadow lurking in the closet...

Tell us, Z10, are YOU gay? Because your reasoning doesn't make sense coming from a heterosexual.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

http://www.usfreeads.com/1223948-cls.html

I suspect the number may actually be higher than 75%. The data is self reported in most studies, and many people who do cheat would never admit it even in a survey where they were guaranteed privacy.

How many first marriages last?

The fact that you are quoting first marriages strengthens my point that only 41% are lasting. Any who knows how long they will last?

When the children are gone, what then happens to the divorce rates?

They go way up...

When it comes to gay marriage, do we have statistical data? Nope, because gay marriage is only legal in a few states.

Give it 10 to 20 years in Mass and other states, then we can get a better picture.

Let's track the children in gay marriages, and see how they turn out.

That's how science works, compared to the bigotry that you employ.

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

75% of spouses cheating? In what world? And the actual divorce rate for first marriages is 41%. In an interesting stat-66% of divorced couples are childless.

http://www.divorcerate.org/

If you think gay couples are monogamous than you're willfully ignoring scientific data.

http://www.narth.com/docs/negotiated.html