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Why vote this down?
- Thread starter EqtTrdr
- Start date
Quote from dddooo:
STATEMENT OF JARED BERNSTEIN, ECONOMIST, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE, WASHINGTON, DC
this is one economic issue for which we have a large body of empirical evidence. Here's what the evidence shows.
First, increases in the minimum wage that raise the earnings of the working poor have historically helped to lower poverty rates.
Second, this evidence is even stronger in the 1990's, as relatively large numbers of poor persons move into the labor market.
Third, the theory that small increases in the minimum wage lead to job losses has repeatedly been tested and repeatedly been found lacking. The estimates of the purported job loss hover at or close to zero. While this aspect of the debate may be an important one among economatricians, from the perspective of policymakers who are looking for ways to help the working poor, it is a distinction without a difference.
Fourth, evidence from the most recent increase in the minimum wage underscores all of the points I've made so far. The 1996-1997 increase helped to raise the earnings of poor workers, and to lower the poverty rates. In addition, there is no evidence of any negative employment impacts. To the contrary, the low-wage labor market is tighter now than it has been in three decades. Unemployment rates of low-wage workers stand at 30-year lows. Employment rates of women leaving welfare to work are at record highs. These facts clearly support the contention that if Congress wants to make work pay, the current proposal to increase the minimum wage makes sense.
Finally, while the proposed increase will help the working poor, it cannot, and should not, be viewed as a sole solution to the poverty problem. Poor families will continue to need income support such as the EITC and food stamps. The increase in the minimum wage, however, will generally lower their dependence on unearned income.
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/edu/hedcew6-29.000/hedcew6-29.htm
If anything we've both proven that there are "experts" on both sides that are in disagreement on the issue.
So the question the title of this thread asks, "Why vote this down?", Can't simply be answered with the typical leftwing-knee-jerk "Because Republicans are Evil and Greedy." Which is so often the standard reply.
I have no facts to support this, aside from a little common-sense and personal experience, but I'd wager that an artificial Floor set by the feds on wages actually works more to suppress then elevate those same wages.
The rode to hell is paved with good intentions ...
My apologies, I reget my choice of words. I'll refrain from the childish name-calling in the future ... I haven't engaged people on the left in awhile, ever since they started regularrly regarding conservatives as the "Fourth Reich, Nazis, etc ..."
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
When you got your first check, were you supporting a family?
Not likely....
If you are so irresponsible to try and raise a family on min wage then that is what you deserve plain and simple. Perhaps you should use your family as motivation to improve your lot in life by bettering yourself instead of complaining about it.
If you are content to live on minimum wage and have no desire or determination to improve then that is what you deserve.
Why in the hell should we mandate that a person have a right to a certain standard of living if they do nothing to improve themselves?
I have no issue with helping someone who is making a determined effort to improve themselves. But if you are over the age of 18 and the only job you can get is one paying minimum wage, the only person that can be blamed is the person in the mirror. In that case, I see no reason for the government to mandate that you be entitled to a wage that provides a certain standard of living just because you breathe. At that point it is time for you to grow up and take some responsibility for yourself and your actions (or lack of action).
Such a black and white existence....all or nothing thinking....quite primitive actually.
Quote from Burtakus:
If you are so irresponsible to try and raise a family on min wage then that is what you deserve plain and simple. Perhaps you should use your family as motivation to improve your lot in life by bettering yourself instead of complaining about it.
If you are content to live on minimum wage and have no desire or determination to improve then that is what you deserve.
Why in the hell should we mandate that a person have a right to a certain standard of living if they do nothing to improve themselves?
I have no issue with helping someone who is making a determined effort to improve themselves. But if you are over the age of 18 and the only job you can get is one paying minimum wage, the only person that can be blamed is the person in the mirror. In that case, I see no reason for the government to mandate that you be entitled to a wage that provides a certain standard of living just because you breathe. At that point it is time for you to grow up and take some responsibility for yourself and your actions (or lack of action).
I'm assuming all you anti minimum wage people are also against overtime laws. The logic is the same for both, so in fairness lets here your rant to eliminate the overtime laws.
Say no to federal government overtime laws.
Does anyone here remember the song "I owe my soul to the company store" ? It's about how the coal minning companies would pay the workers and then deduct their rent to live in company houses and they shopped at the company store. At the end of the week of working in a mine the miner owed the company money and got deeper in debt every week. It's not just a song it really happened. An example of big business without government labor laws protecting them. Do ya'll really want to go back to those day? Even the Hannity & Rush coolaid drinkers wouldn't want to see their fellow Americans in that condition.
Say no to federal government overtime laws.
Does anyone here remember the song "I owe my soul to the company store" ? It's about how the coal minning companies would pay the workers and then deduct their rent to live in company houses and they shopped at the company store. At the end of the week of working in a mine the miner owed the company money and got deeper in debt every week. It's not just a song it really happened. An example of big business without government labor laws protecting them. Do ya'll really want to go back to those day? Even the Hannity & Rush coolaid drinkers wouldn't want to see their fellow Americans in that condition.
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
Such a black and white existence....all or nothing thinking....quite primitive actually.
Please explain to me why the government (or anyone for that matter) should be in the business of helping those who do not help themselves with providing a certain standard of living? I am not trying to be sarcastic or offensive or start a flame war. I would like a serious attempt to explain why. Perhaps you could convince me to reevaluate my position if the argument was compelling enough.
Quote from bigarrow:
I'm assuming all you anti minimum wage people are also against overtime laws. The logic is the same for both, so in fairness lets here your rant to eliminate the overtime laws.
Say no to federal government overtime laws.
Does anyone here remember the song "I owe my soul to the company store" ? It's about how the coal minning companies would pay the workers and then deduct their rent to live in company houses and they shopped at the company store. At the end of the week of working in a mine the miner owed the company money and got deeper in debt every week. It's not just a song it really happened. An example of big business without government labor laws protecting them. Do ya'll really want to go back to those day? Even the Hannity & Rush coolaid drinkers wouldn't want to see their fellow Americans in that condition.
I am not from that time but how were the mine employees forced to live in company housing and forced to shop at the company store? How were they forced to work in the mines in the first place?
You'll have to do your own homework if you really want to know about the history and plight of the working poor. Read a little about how the early American business tycoons made it big on what amounted to slave labor. Times are different and tons better today and I think employeers care more about the people working for them. But it was brought about first by federal labor laws. And if we didn't have the laws today you can bet with 100% certantity that some employers will go back to slave labor type wages when they could get away with it.
You assume that everyone is not doing the very best that they can.
That is a false assumption.
That is a false assumption.
Quote from Burtakus:
Please explain to me why the government (or anyone for that matter) should be in the business of helping those who do not help themselves with providing a certain standard of living? I am not trying to be sarcastic or offensive or start a flame war. I would like a serious attempt to explain why. Perhaps you could convince me to reevaluate my position if the argument was compelling enough.